A massive crowd gathered Wednesday night in the BMG dining room to hear from Rav Malkiel Kotler, Rav Yisroel Neuman, and Rav Aharon Feldman of Ner Yisroel in an asifa against participation in the ongoing World Zionist Organization (WZO) elections.
The WZO elections, held every five years, play a pivotal role in determining how billions of dollars are allocated across Eretz Yisroel. The Eretz Hakodesh party was formed with the goal of securing representation in the World Zionist Congress and redirecting funds to support Torah institutions and yeshivos. The initiative has received backing from many gedolim and was endorsed in the previous election by Harav Chaim Kanievsky zt”l.
However, not all gedolei torah agree with this approach. The speakers at the Asifa strongly opposed any participation in the election, arguing that any affiliation with the Zionist movement—even for the purpose of supporting yeshivos—is treif. They expressed deep concerns about the potential risks of engaging with a system they believe to be inherently opposed to Torah values.
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[HaRav Avrohom Gurwicz, Rosh Yeshivas Gateshead: “It’s a Chiyuv to Have a Say in the WZO”]
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67 Responses
Thank YWN for representing this issue fairly from both sides.
To the zionist Torah is no different then the Chinese religion it’s not a personal thing it is some kind of collective culture not for each individual as the life so if you have to go to the army you not obligated to the Torah it isn’t life breath to them of every single person himself it is only for all the Jewish nation
How dare anyone vilify the Pesaq of the venerated Gateshead Rish Yeshiva shlita, & how dare anyone vilify the Pesaq of the late Godol haDor Moreinu HoRav Chaim Kanievsky ZTKLLH’H on this very same issue.
BMG is opposed? I’m going to vote TODAY
They could care less about wht Rav Chaim zatzal held. He was fiercely opposed to the BMG freezer yet they continue. So he’s water under the bridge in their minds. They care about BMG.
In fact, I bought my רש”י כפשוטו after they banned it.
BMG is not for me.
BMG is not for me.
BMG is not for me nor is it right for thee.
I believe all Sephardic gedolim poskin to yes vote.
Well there goes a lot of votes. I’m not interested in voting either. What exactly did we gain last time from their Phantom money. They’ll continue supporting transgenders and women of the wall anyway
chaval
With Kavod to the Gedolim
maybe one can explain
why do Yeshivas/Kolellelim in EY take so much money from the government
if the Rabbanim do not want to be involved
not long ago the Roshei Yeshiva came to America because they were going to lose one hundred million dollars from the govt !
what is the difference between that money taken and voting and getting some of WZO money
when people want to come and have mixed davening at kosel and all the other issues
people come out to scream and protest
if some of these issues can be solved (possibly even more) by voting in WZO why would this not be just as an important effort. trying from another angle
and for other issues people protest and cause terrible chilul Hashem and danger to others
why would voting not be another more peaceful form of effort…
please someone explain to the general public
BH I just voted thanks BMG for the reminder
Thank you for posting this true Da’as Torah.
For the sake of consistency, please refuse as well Zionist government funding for yeshivos, kollelim, housing subsidies, Arnona discounts, day care subsidies, and free health care coverage.
And leave the Zionist Kenesset as well.
A total divorce from the Zionist State.
The taxpayers of Israel will thank you.
The People of Israel will be very grateful
Reb Emes – are you serious? Do you know that because of the actions of the Orthodox coalition, yeshivas and seminaries got more funding? Offsetting costs for American coming to study in Israel? Did you know that Keren Hashviis got massive support, and in the last shmittah, over 90% of farmers kept some type of shmittah? Do you know how many thousands of Jews in Israel have grown in their shmiras hamitvos thanks to the state funding?
Rabbosai, this is an important election. Follow your poskim and vote for what makes sense to you, if your poskim say to vote. If not, don’t vote.
This isn’t a cause for sinas chinam.
Of all the issues facing klal Yisroel in general and the yeshiva world in particular, why is this the issue that gets an asifa?!
So don’t vote. No need to make a big deal about not voting and turning it into a religious mandate, that’s a זיוף התורה.
Something tells me a lot of these people would think totally different if BMG would get $$$ out of it.
Just like it’s okay to sign on to be a “Democrat”, with all that entails, because everyone knows you don’t really stand for that, you’re just playing the democratic game – here it’s way better! because EY and “Judaism” is not theirs to begin with, you’re just being מציל מידם what they highjacked…
rebEmes,
You don’t remember how many bochurim went to EY during corona with their help?
I am so scared about the כותל becoming mixed gathering השם ירחם, hence my unequivocal יראת שמים is telling me not to even hesitate to go & vote, and how dare anyone discourage anyone from voting in this critically important election. Not voting is Blasphemy.
These are actual quotes from a video recently posted by the Reform movement:
“The (WZC) election is a way for you to support democracy, pluralism…to stand up for women’s and LGBTQ+ rights…”
“If we don’t vote and don’t show up, we know who will; our extremist ultra-Orthodox opponents who stand against these values, who have fought us at every turn…”
This is a small sampling from the Reform leaders, begging their non-frum followers to combat the Orthodox slate of Eretz Hakodesh, who, at the behest of the greatest Torah Leaders of our generation, were able to garner almost 25,000 votes in the most recent WZC election in 2020.
If every American Torah observant adult voted for this Orthodox slate, it would result in many more millions of dollars being funneled to the Mosdos that you support, and place a dagger in the heart of the Reform movement who wish to destroy Torah life in Eretz Yisroel. (As an example, they are working to outlaw separate sections for men and women by the Kosel!)
Check out their website http://eretzhakodesh.org/ and you will see that what I am saying is but a fraction of the importance of your participation.
any lefty zionist krum positions turn out to be wrong
rav shmuel auerbach zt”lsaid long ago do not even go to the draft office when they contact you.. do not engage with them, now the entire olam hayeshivos in eretz yisroel has no joined the fray
rav chaims psak was solicited based off non full disclosure
Whyy is this any different than voting in Israeli elections? (Unless the roshei yeshiva are opposed to that too, in that case they are in the extreme minority…)
Who is surprised? For years I’ve heard the Lakwood crowd denigrate learning in Israel and the chashivus of Torah m’tzion. What do they care about the yeshivos in E’Y or the inroads that heterodox movements are making to destroy the kedusha of marriage, the kosel, etc.? They are cutting off their nose to spite their face. Billions of dollars are at stake. If they think that voting in the WZO makes them a zionist, then their votes locally make them LBGT and defund the police advocates. Hypocritical.
147, not everything is black and white.
Yaapchik, if you would do some research, you wouldn’t be posting those comments. for one thing, The BMG Roshei yeshiva were not the only ones behind the Rashi K’pshuto controversy.
Before you bash BMG or anyone, think a 1000 times!
1. Starting up with a talmid chochom is messing with fire, even if you are right. There’s 7000+ talmidei chachomim there. Being a talmid chochom doesn’t need anybody’s approval, its a reality.
2. Having an opinion about something can include many reasons. Just because they don’t elaborate, doesn’t mean they don’t have a good reason.
3. It may be a psak for their yeshiva, nobody needs to go to that yeshiva of they don’t like it. Who said it was meant to spread to the news.
4. Its the nature of an am hoeretz to hate Talmidie chachomim. If you feel the need to share your hatred towards a very large group of undisputed Talmidie chachomim, you may be announcing to the world that YOU are a bonified first class am haoretz.
Ummmm, they never banned רש”י כפשוטו…
to some ppl. any rabbi who agrees with them is venerated
and as soon as that rabbi learns that someone mislead him by not fully disclosing the issues at hand and that rabbi retracts his psak than all of a sudden this rav is no longer venerated
yaapchik in one line has decided not only whatever the roshei yeshiva of lakewood say he does farkert but he paskens so should thee
Fools. When the time comes and these lashings hara fools rush to make it to eretz Yisrael who do you think they’ll be begging for help from? The very same people- both frum and secular and all in between- for help. Sickening. I doubt most there will see the geula, their love of galus smells like intermarriage on the land of Israel.
I thought I was supposed to sign up and vote so I did. I am confused now. Am I a tzadik or shaygetz? 😉
to correct this article, it was pointed out by the asifa that there is no factual basis that Rav Chaim endorsed it (which would have been quite surprising, considering his father’s, father-in-law’s, the Chazon Ish’s and many other Gedolim’s clear psak assuring it), and Rav Gurwicz clearly writes in his letter that he is basing himself on Rav Chaim (among other factual misconceptions).
why dont you post the content of Rav Feldmans speech
“anyone vilify the Pesaq of the late Godol haDor Moreinu HoRav Chaim Kanievsky ZTKLLH’H on this very same issue.”
Any ruling that he made from that time period means that they paid off Gechazi a/k/a as Yanky Kanievsky
Harav Hagaon R Chaim Kanievsky said this a few years ago. Things have changed over the past year with the WZO that its possible if Harav Hagaon R Chaim Kanievsky ZTL was still alive he may have paskened different . Remember you have to pay $5 to vote & as long as the reform are in charge your money you are paying to vote will go towards that . The Rabbonim in Lakewood also know we have to Chance to get more seats than the Reform because if we did they also may have paskened differently we dont know
“[Disclaimer: YWN does not take a position on this matter but is presenting the discussion for informational purposes.]”
And what kind of lie is that!! With all the EH ads all over your website, who exactly do you think you are fooling by saying YWN doesn’t take any position on this topic!!
Moderators Note: The people anti WZO can gladly take ads on YWN as well. So far, no one has done that. You can pay for those ads yourself. Please click here for information on placing ads on YWN https://www.theyeshivaworld.com/contact/advertise
To paraphrase a quote of R’ Malkiel: They are not part of klal yisroel. Confused and want to know what to do? Whatever he says, do the exact opposite. Anyone who goes against the Sar HaTorah, R’ Chaim Kanevsky ztzl who clearly said it is a MITZVA to vote, is not part of klal yisroel. No question if the WZO would give money to BMG or Ner Yisroel, they would sing a different song.
A group of people who can’t figure out whether a major posek of this generation did or did not make a psak about a major event in world Jewish life – should not participate in voting for anything until they learn to keep notes.
As itsallfromhashem just said and needs to be reiterated, this common practice of spitting at rabbanim today needs to stop and it’s causing us hell on this world. There are two respectable sides to this debate and and whoever is following their righteous rabbanims mehalech will not be held accountable in heaven for going against the Torah. As opposed to other debates where it’s the modern Orthodox versus the ultra orthodox, in general you don’t pick the side that learns 80% less, you go with whoever learns more. But in this case it’s holy people versus holy people. You can go safely with your choice and that’s that. There’s a great Arguments for either side but we are not allowed to step on the side that we don’t agree with because they are just as holy. Once you get into the dirty habit of stepping on holiness you end up like some of the comments you see here, a complete lack of respect for Torah Authority
@rabbigolding
Actually, there are multiple Orthodox slates fighting for Orthodox WZO standards , including the OU, and unlike Eretz Ha Kodesh have an official board of Orthodox Rabbonim that guide them. See the Eretz ha Kodesh website and search for a Rabbinnic board. OU has actual Rabbonim to guide them.
@yeshivaguy45
Actually, BMG was the ONLY yeshiva force behind the peshuto Shel Mikra ban. Everyone else in the US who signed was because BMG asked them to. Even the BMG co-Roshei Yeshiva only sign be the main rosh yeshiva asked them to.
BMG got involved because the Peleg people behind the ban in EY lost the Din Torah in EY and could no longer find mainstream Rabbinnic support for the ban in EY. That’s why they needed BMG, their Peleg ally.
Is Eli Stefansky on the Moetzes?
Ywn how can you advertise and as a result heavily promote voting in this election when there are great Roshei Yeshiva in our backyard that say it is forbidden. Not discouraged ,forbidden.
If there was a machlokes in Halacha whether the food from Store A is kosher would you advertise that it is kosher
There is clear dispute whether the voting is permitted or prohibited how can you be advertising to permit.
When in doubt do without aka as sofeik lechumra
Eli51:
As it happens, of course, he did not say it five years ago. As well, the claim that he did say it was supposedly a “horaas shaah”. Five years later is obviously not the same, not just a theoretical “might be” different.
The truth is that it’s the same blanket prohibition against this abomination (of joining the WZO) as it has been prohibited for over a century by even Rav Elyashiv to the Shas party which already was a party in the Israeli government.
dear moderator:
would you accept ads from a treif restaurant? would you accept ads promoting chilul shabbos? would you also say that so far no one took out ads against treif or chilul shabbos.. By accepting ads from Eretz Hakhodush you are indeed legitimizing their position, contrary to daas torah. You are indeed taking a stand.
It was stated that Rav Chaim Ks psak was five years ago, today he might have said something different.
If you embrace this haskafa, then leave full time learning, earn a college degree and support your family with dignity. Because all of your excuses for draying around and shnooring are based on a gadols hashkafa from 1950, and would certainly be different today.
All this asifa did is prove that the Lakewood gedolim are disconnected from Torah and their people in 2025.
We all know what the seforim say, that the great nisayon of acharis hayamim, in which we are living, is emunah. Emunah in Hashem includes believing that Hashem runs the world and everything transpiring within it, to the smallest seemingly insignificant detail, and only He is the only Koach. We also realize that Hashem requires our hishtadlus, but our hishtadlus actually accomplishes nothing, as only Hashem can effect anything. Hishtadlus, among other things, is a means of overcoming nisyonos, to earn Olom Habah. That is what this world is all about.
Part and parcel of emunah is emunas chachomim, trusting in our chachomim to alert us to nisyonos that our feeble minds may not easily discern, and to guide us thru overcoming these nisyonos.
Hashem created a yetzer hara, kochos hatum’ah, sitra achara, to create these nisayon situations. At the final geulah, bekorov, Hashem will do away with these kochos harah. The seforim say that these kochos harah will intensify tremendously before the final geulah, like a flame intensifies just as it is about to be extinguished. And these kochos harah will mostly challenge our emunah, sowing tremendous confusion. It is likened to everyone hanging on to a rope, as Hashem will shake the rope violently , and those who hang on tight will survive the nisyonos of emunah during acharis hayamim.
This entire debate about voting is exactly what happened at the time of the cheit ha’egel (last week’s parasha). Chazal tell us that the satan paraded an image of a dead Moshe Rabeinu around klall yisroel, which contributed to their confusion and led to the Cheit Ha’egel. Those with strong emunah were not fazed by this seemingly clear image, while many pointed to what their eyes clearly saw, that Moshe Rabeinu was no longer. Yet, they were wrong, despite the fact they saw it with their own eyes.
This is our nisayon here. The satan is working fervently overtime to be machshil innocent yidden to go against our mesorah, to joining/declaring allegiance/partnering with groups and ideas against our Torah, with the “best intentions” of hishtadlus to influence the WZO by voting, as if Hashem can’t handle the situation without our hishtadlus. Would you accept a person going to work on Shabbos, because he has to do hishtadlus? If the hishtadlus is an aveirah, then it’s obviously not Hashem’s ratzon.
Our gedolim are beseeching us not to fall prey to the Satan’s tricks of parading a “dead” Moshe rabeinnu in front of us, in the form of respected chachomim encouraging voting. This is our great nisayon… to follow the mesorah of the great Gedolim of our past and recent past, and those of today taking responsibility to preserve our mesorah, and fighting to wake Yidden up to the reality of this awful nisayon. The satan is trying to get his last licks and the image of a dead Moshe rabeinu is very powerful. Yidden!!! Hold on tight!!! Hashem will deal with the WZO, He doesn’t need us. He only wants us to be temimusdik in our emunah during this difficult nisayon and to declare MI LAHASHEM AYLAIY!!!! May we all be zoche to see the emes and make a nachas ruach to the Borei Olam, and thus be zoche to the geaulah sheleima bekorov.
They convinced me. I’m voting.
Someone should tell them boys that the Israeli Govt. has no involvement whatsoever with this allocation of funds. Let me remind you that it was a ZIONIST who saved Joel Teitelbaum’s hide during WWII.
Bottom line is if there was money in this allocation to fill the Feldman Kotler Savings Bank, these guys would be voting day and night.
Avi K:
Religious Zionist idolaters don’t need any convincing.
YWN is misrepresenting this issue. They are essentially using EH talking points as their basis for the story and then adding almost as an afterthought that some gedolim are against it.
The truth is that EH has been lying ever since their ignoble beginning five years ago, and have produced zero teshuvos from Rav Chaim and Rav Gershon. Rav Aharon Feldman and others have pointed out that there never was a heter from Rav Chaim, and from Rav Gershon.
YWN also is greatly remiss in omitting that joining the WZO was always absolutely forbidden by all gedolim, for over a century, to join the WZO. This is not some new issue that is allegedly eilu viEilu.
Joining the WZO was always, and remains, absolutely forbidden.
Contrary to what some people have stated Rav Chaim Kanievsky did support Eretz Hakodesh 5 years ago explicitly and fully understood the issues at hand and when asked about Rav Elyashiv ztl apparently saying it’s ossur he said it’s a different shayla for a different time. This is confirmed by Rav Dov Povarsky shlita as well as Rav Yosef Efrati shlita. All those who say otherwise only do so based on their own assumptions but no one actually claims to have inquired and found that Rav Chaim Kanievsky was not supporting Eretz Hakodesh. As far as it being different now than 5 years ago even those who oppose Eretz Hakodesh don’t claim that so that is not a fair tayna at all.
DumbSage58:
That is the point. The ideological WZO is far worse (as in, absolutely forbidden by all) to join versus Israelis voting in the Israeli govt. elections.
You also have it totally backwards. The cursed Nazis were going to double-cross the wicked Zionist Kastner and murder everyone on that train. It was likely the Satmar Rav’s presence (and tefillos) that stopped that plan. As well, Jewish (American and other) money paid for that train.
Also, even if it were true that a “Zionist” saved the life of anyone, that doesn’t in the slightest diminish from the terrible rebellion against G-d, and “not a good thing” for Jews, that is Zionism and its “State”.
If the ZOA were smart they would give a large sum of money to every group that can turn out thousands of voters like big yeshivas and big shuls.
I don’t understand.
All you guys: @147 @Yaapchik @Tzvi613 @Lakewoodblt @wojwoj and the rest, who hate the Torah, Talmidei Chachamim and Yeshivos, are going to now vote for funds to go (supposedly) to…. Chareidi yeshivos that learn only Torah (B”H kein yirbu) and follow to those Talmidei Chachamim?!?!?
Unless you guys plan on voting for Conservative or MIzrachi etc. slates…
Reading these comments (which was a mistake) makes me want to cry. Do people really think they are doing something positive by denigrating talmidei chachomin??? Terrible! You people should be ashamed of yourselves and YWN should be ashamed to have posted these horrible comments.
[email protected]:
Rav Aharon Feldman at the Lakewood asifa mentioned in this article specifically stated again (as he had previously published in writing) that Rav Chaim was not aware, and was never mattir this abomination. Listen to the recording. And everyone knows that Rav Chaim was already very hard of hearing five years ago.
As well, the supposed heter from Rav Chaim was a “horaas shaah”, and it’s now five years later. But it’s anyways all sheker.
“All those who say otherwise only do so based on their own assumptions”… Yes, none other than Rav Aharon Feldman just publicly stated at this asifa in front of thousands of people that Rav Chaim Kanievsky was *not* supporting Eretz Hakodesh.
There is also a mesorah by every gadol going back over a century absolutely forbidding joining the WZO.
It’s all lies and money. Don’t forward lies.
Shlomo 2:
“Modern Orthodox”, like the OU has Zionist idolatry as part of its core identity. So that isn’t what’s relevant here. What’s relevant is that EH has put forth numerous lies to fool the traditionally Orthodox Jews.
Who heads this eretz Hakodesh disaster they are choteh umachti es harabim
Can we publicize these treasonous zionists for what they really are
Hello all
Why not take the two billion dollars for Frum groups and yeshivas. If you say WZO is treif because they support gays then why do you vote for democrats who also support gays. But getting money from democrats overrules everything. So why not take the money from WZO. The reform are trying to beat us on this election. A far thirty thousand Jews voted for the Frum slate. We need one hundred thousand.
I just voted. Why not. We have to defeat the reform and conservative heretical sects. We need to destroy them by taking over. Chaim Berlin took over a conservative temple,Lakewood yeshiva took over also a conservative temple,Bobov 45 took over conservative temple Emanuel in Boro park and belz took over the Boro park reform temple on 46 st.
HaKatan, have you volunteered for Mahmud Khallil’s defense team? Anyone who says that the State of Israel was created by the Satan believes in two gods.
pony,
You need to remember that talmidei chachamim are not always right, and are often wrong , and not only are they often wrong, they are often very very wrong. and not only are they very wrong, their wrongs have led to the DESTRUCTION OF THE BEIT HAMIKDASH (as when the talmidei chachamim would not stand up and speak out in the bar kamtzah episode, or as when then thousands of talmidei chachamim of rebbe Akiva died because of lack of derech eretz, or when Korach and the giant talmidei chachamim went against Moshe. The list goes on and on. If you want to be sheep because so and so said XYZ then you will go to the slaughterhouse like sheep.)
think for YOURSELF what is right. Hashem gave you a brain. use it.
detaching from the “Zionist” state (you realize that anti semites use this same reasoning to hide behind anti semitism and call it Zionism). you CANNOT detach Zionism from the holy land of Israel. when my brothers sign up for the IDF no they’re not fighting for the bad lefty policies of the morally corrupt israeli Supreme Court. They are fighting for all of the jewish people’s right to enjoy the holiness of israel and for a safe haven for all Jews of all stripes. The fact that some “talmidei chachamim” chose to look negatively at the situation doesn’t change the facts. they have a Bad Eye and need to work on AYIN TOVA. THEY need Teshuva and All Jews should pray that they do Teshuva
you are right it was created by the satan and the erev rav
2 g-ds?
the satmar rav believes in 2- g-ds ?
i think there is a lot greater chance that you do
ItsallfromHashem is a self hating Jew with no respect whatsoever for דעת-תורה. I respect דעת-תורה the likes of Moreini HoRav Shmuel Kamenetsky שליט”א , the Gateshead ראש-ישיבה שליט”א , Moreinu HoRav Chaim Kanievesky זצקללה”ה. So there you have it. These leading גדולי-הדור all Paskened to vote, to weaken the wicked Reform & the wicked Conservative. I am voting, because I & these authentic גדולים do NOT want to see buses running on שבת-קודש nor to deal with mixed crowds at the כותל השם ירחם.
They’re a daas Yochid and don’t pasken for every kehilah
Where is the Eretz Hakodesh money going?
Where are their 990’s? Who is auditing their books?
What percent of the money is kickbacks?
Would love to see more transparency on this.
I think we are being a bit naive by believing all these ads.
I would sooner daven in reform shul than in BMG. No klal yisrsel consciousness whatsoever. So sad to see Jews who hide behind their “religiousness” to avoid being part of the greater Jewish people.
אכן נודע הדבר
לשון הרע ושנאת חינם כנגד כולם