- This topic has 11 replies, 9 voices, and was last updated 2 hours, 9 minutes ago by .
-
Posts
-
It has now been over a decade since the launch of the NASI Project aiming to reduce the age gap in shidduchim on the basis that it is the cause of many girls being unable to get married due to a lack of boys to marry. The NASI Project included a nationwide and worldwide major campaign including various rabbinic endorsements and mass media efforts.
Perhaps now is a good time to make an assessment as to the net results of what this has accomplished. From my singular view it seems to me that the major impact that occurred, and perhaps the only major impact, is that Litvish girls are getting married younger and younger than previously. They have significantly narrowed the gap in how young they get married compared to Chasidish girls (and boys).
Does anyone agree or disagree with this assessment? Or have any other thoughts to share on this subject. And if, indeed, this is the case, what benefits have accrued from the average younger age of marriage, in regards to how it affects the age gap — and more importantly whether it increases the ability of all girls to have an available shidduch. (The more general benefits of getting married younger are well known, including better adherence to halacha and less problems with the issues young people have when being unmarried.)
If the beliefs of the NASI Project are true, then why were they never mentioned by 33 centuries of our ancestors?
I’m not siding with NASI on anything but hopefully you’ll agree that changes in the dynamics of the Litvish Community over the last half century brought in challenges that weren’t seen in the 32 1/2 centuries before that.
Is NASI still around and if so, in what capacity? It’s been some time since @AZ posted anything here and I haven’t seen any of their ads in a publication recently.
Have there been any reliable studies shwoing that their efforts have worked to narrow the age gap between spouses? If indeed Litvish girls are getting married younger- are they marrying men closer to their age?
I discussed with @AZ 10+ years ago (and I still believe) that the “age gap” is a by product of more serious root causes that need to be resolved but aren’t being discussed. (He didn’t agree with me.)
some facts we can all agree on ( i have no affiliation w nasi & bh have 4 kids married )
the kind of analytical data you are asking for no one has
here is what we all see in the american yeshiva/litvish segment of klal yisroel
TRUE OR FALSE
1. a normal girl from a typical family can go six months without dating a boy thats even close2 .any family that has had a boy & girl in shidduchim will tell u the volume of calls is SO DIFFERENT… (even if their daughter is a better catch)
3. there are many parents of daughters who are so drained from the process…just waiting for a neis
4. in yiddish they say “TZVEI TECHTER, NISHT KAYN GELECHTER” we are at a point that many have RED LIGHTS! (skip or no skip who is a kohen godol?)
5. many well meaning woman have made shidduch meetings , set up, brought in big shadchanim, pics, resumes, texts and calls much time & effort WITHOUT SUCCESS. ( yes hishtadlus, yes showed they care..but no home runs ( and even if a big whole day event made 2 shiduchim thats not a sustainable model despite the best of intentions)
now for the flip side
the wedding halls are booked solid
BMG is averaging 570 chasanim a year and each one has a kalla
the girls getting engaged are NOT only the ; rich or pretty or yichus ,functional families, big degrees ( although that helps on paper)
in fact they didnt do anything dif. than their classmates who are still waitingso WHAT DID NASI DO?
THEY SCREAMED…..HELP es brent ah fire!!
they researched as best they could
they brought their findings to any rav or rosh who would listen
they encouraged the tzibur to look past their own needs and think of the bigger pictureis point 1 & 2 because boy gets resume first as opposed to chassidish where both sides get resume with same click of the mouse
to be continued…A few words about the chassidish scene what’s similar and what is so dif.
1 koshe zivugin… challenging to say the least is by all
2. By chassidim having a boy or girl in shiduchim is almost the same meaning you hear names
3. Chassidish bucherim are visible in shul yomtov and most shabosim tish , not out of sight…no program for them past 20
4. By chassidim a greater Sense of urgency , culturly there is a huge pressure by kehilos as an example a yeshivish older bochur told me I’m not dating in elul call me after Yom tov on the flip side there were more than 50 chassidish shiduchim in aseres yemei teshuva.. chol hamoed.. as bucherim want to go back to ey a chuseen
5 litvish girls are melumedos..and want to be convinced that u are a gavra worthy of them saying yes..a chassidish girl for the most part wants someone frum , similar family..and be nice to me a much lower bar
Of course there are exceptions to everything said..and many problems as well.. golus“and perhaps the only major impact, is that Litvish girls are getting married younger and younger than previously.”
Isn’t that the opposite of the point? Wouldn’t they want them to get married older, or have the boys be younger? The shortage is caused by the girls being younger than the men, so having them be even younger would just make it worse.
Neville > Isn’t that the opposite of the point?
Right. Seems to be what is optimal for one person is not optimal for the community. Unstable system.
Actually, it may be not good for the girl also: she might end up marrying later as this is when her age becomes close to chatanim and disbalance decreases – but she and her parents experience a couple of more years of anxiety and this may, H’V, affect her beauty. She would be better of going getting a MS degree before wasting her time applying for MRS degree.
The recent podcast of Stories of Hope featured a couple with a disability married. It was quoted that in Skver, every year there is a list of all of the boys and girls and shadchanim go down the list and set them up. Within 1-2 years they are all married. The man on the podcast was considered an alter Bochur at 22 (and married a 26 year old girl). I believe that there is a shadchan crisis.
1. Shadchanim are too few compared to the number of eligible singles each year. The girls that get married young have parents working full time on shidduchim for them.
2. Shadchanim work “in the box”. Someone slightly circle automatically gets rejected and is left in her own to find her mate, whether single events or other.
3. Too much power is given to shadchanim. Left, right…
4. We need to create a database of names of boys and girls and have an organization going through the list and setting people up.A FEW COMMENTS ( IN CAPS JUST TO DIFFRENTIATE )The recent podcast of Stories of Hope featured a couple with a disability married.
It was quoted that in Skver, every year there is a list of all of the boys and girls and shadchanim go down the list and set them up. EVERY CHASSIDUS WORKS THAT WAY, IT WORKS IN THEIR CONTEXT- GO FOR A SHABBOS TO SKVER, A REGULAR BY GIRL IS A WHOLE DIFF PARSHAH
Within 1-2 years they are all married. The man on the podcast was considered an alter Bochur at 22 (and married a 26 year old girl). THE SENSE OF URGENCY, HELPS PEOPLE JUMP BUT IT ALSO CREATES A SHARP CLIFF AND U GET OLD VERY FAST
I believe that there is a shadchan crisis.
1. Shadchanim are too few compared to the number of eligible singles each year. The girls that get married young have parents working full time on shidduchim for them. QUESTION HOW MANY HOURS OF ” WORK” PER SHIDDUCH MADE , WOULD YOU CONSIDER WORTHWHILE & EFFICIENT2. Shadchanim work “in the box”. Someone slightly circle automatically gets rejected and is left in her own to find her mate, whether single events or other. MAYBE THEIR SHOULD BE SHADCHANIM SPECIALIZING IN ” OUT OF THE BOX , OWN BEAT,… (U WILL SOON REALIZE MOST PEOPLE ARE NOT REGULAR
3. Too much power is given to shadchanim. Left, right… HUH?
4. We need to create a database of names of boys and girls and have an organization going through the list and setting people up. DO YOU KNOW HOW MANY TIMES THAT WAS TRIED , I DONT HAVE THE ANSWERS?Thanks for briniging it up
it HAS been a whileyears ago I pointed out some flaws in the idea behind the Age gap TM theory.
I predicted that therefore efforts to close the “age gap” would not help .
for reasons not entirely clear to me this really upset people at the time, and they refused to entertain other solutions that might help (that may be why they were so upset)Since then Yosef sokol has released data essentially debunking the premise
At the time I said lets revisit this in 10 years (sadly knowing that were just kicking the can down the road)
has it been that long already ?
would love to hear an update from NAsi or @Az and its other ardent defenders
The Age Gap is not the issue. There are plenty of boys. The issue is that the boys and girls are not on the same spritual levels. There are few learning quality boys available to the many girls who only want learning. The solution would be to help those boys grow and lower the higher ecpectations of the girls, who have it pounded into their heads, that a learning boy is the only thing to look for. I see girls growing older, they still want learning boys, meanwhile. unless they change their mindsets, they will still be single. The pool of boys available to them will shrink, even more so.
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.