A lot of DL Bashing Charedim Lately

The Emes is they were consistant with Torah and halacha always. Nowadays there is a split between Torah and Halacha that Chareidi Gedolim are not really paskening based on critical halachik analysis בעיון הסוגיה והפוסקים nowadays it’s more based on what the frum way of doing it or they can claim דעת תורה but a proper תשובה הלכתית is not usually written on matters of great importance.

“The ones who if you needed a bracha for something and they would be on your list to get a bracha from were all chareidy.”

I think this is incorrect for many people Rav Ovadia Yosef zatzal was big source for brochas and was not of typical chareidi world view. In addition Rav Dov kook of teveriah many go to him for brochos he is more liberal toward the idf. Also Hagaon Rav Hershel Shachter many go to him for brochos as well. Historically Rav isser zalman meltzer famously said that Rav Avrohom Yitzchok Kook davens on a typical mincha more than most people daven on yom kipur. The Netziv was leader of volozin and was a member of chovevei tzion the predecessor of mizrahi/dati leumi.

All the gedolim who spoke and/or wrote about DL, stated that DL is idolatry and heresy. That’s just the facts.
Rav Elchonon wrote in Kovetz Maamarim that Zionism is idolatry, and “Religious Zionism” is religion and idolatry biShituf.
The Brisker Rav wrote, and the Gerrer Rebbe and others signed on, that the DL education is a “sea of heresy mixed in with a drop of Torah”.

In this web site, in this Coffee Room, there are people
who insult the Dati Leumi at every possible opportunity.

I will not mention their names.

The further back you go, the more gedolim appear to us as Charedim. The same holds true for most Baal ha-Battim. To a certain extent 21st century Hareidim often act like reinactors (i.e. they are really much modern than they seem, but act old fashioned as an ideological statement – note use of modern medicine, modern engineered fabrics, modern transportation, modern printing). Contrast this with some goyim who for example, refuse modern drugs, only wear natural fabrics (made from plants or animals rather than from petroleum, don’t use automobiles, insist on using scrolls, etc.).

No one was “modern” before “modern” times, almost by definition (e.g. Rashi never had a smartphone, Moshe Rabeinu never browsed the internet, the Maccabees never used rifles, no one before the mid-20th century used antibiotics or frozen foods, etc.). To a 21st century person, all the Gedolim prior to modern times appear to be Hareidi.

PS As we are told to go to shoftim of our times and not to previous times, similarly, “modern” is relative to the science of the time, not of future times.

akuperma, if you read mussar books carefully, you will be amazed
by the wrongdoings committed by Jews of previous generations,
back in the days when every Jew was allegedly a Tzaddik Gamur.

David HaMelech had two sons who attempted to KILL him,
and another son who forced his own sister into physical intimacy.

@Chaim87,
You make me laugh!
The Chafetz Chaim walked out? huh?
The Chafetz Chaim, when being shown a piece written by “rav” kook about playing football to build muscles and boys and girls dancing together having the ma’alah of tikun chatzot – afra lepumei, he wouldn’t touch the paper, instead shoving it with his elbow to the floor and shouting – “kook, shmook drook!” Apikoires!

And then you say “Satmar Rebs and briska Rav were very holy and anti DL. But they weren’t the mainstream of klal Yisroel”.

So quite clearly you outline yourself as DL or MO, because, whether you are a satmar chassid or not, a brisker or not, to say they were not the “mainstream” means only one thing, that what you call mainstream and what most people call mainstream is obviously not the same thing.
The biggest lie is that they wer “da’as yachid” (funny thing to be able to call more than one Gadol in the singular term Da’as Yachid).

Let’s get this straight, if you have an agenda here, than yes, anyone who veers from the path of zionist idol worship (or at least in some way seemed to have a positive view partly even), is not mainstream.
But if you follow and want the truth lets go through this:

The Satmar Rav was NOT a da’as yachid for many reasons but two basic reasons:

1) Many Rabbanim, Posikim and Rebbe’s agreed and followed that way, which only after the war was branded the “satmar shita”. before it was the common core belief of most frum, ehrlich, shomrei shabbat in the world.
It was after the Satmar Rav was machriah a big shailah in the form of his sefer Vayoel Moshe, that many Gedolim either agreed that that was what should be followed, or agreed in principle but in certain specific circumstances argued.
Those Gedolim and Poskim who did agree might have not got that much coverage and backing by hamodia or even the opposite (just like the Satmar Rav who during his lifetinme was cursed and mevazeh by so called “frum” news outlets, but became a kadosh once he was niftar), but the fact remains they were Gedolim alright, e.g.
1) The Veitziner Rav – beforhand the Bergen Belsen Rav, who was the main posek after the war in the area of agunot, and his psakim are used in that area until today,
2) The Pupa Rav, who was both a major Posek and one of the first Marbitzei Torah after the war, opening a Yeshiva after the war in the USA,
3) Rav Yosef Chaim Zonnenfeld (- before the war), who sent a sheila to the Satmar rav about what the Da’as Torah on “rav” kook is (at the time Rav Zonnenfeld was probably in his eighties whilst the Satmar Rav was maybe in his early thirties but Rav Zonnendfeld felt that he needed to ask him), and the Teshuva is printed in Shu”t Divrei Yoel 131 or 132,
4) Rav Zelig bengis,
5) Rav Pinchas Yungreis,
6) Rav Avraham Kalmanovitch (Mir USA),
7) Vadislaver rav,
8) Tosher Rebbe,
9) Skulener Rebbes,
10) The Bobover Rebbe’s (although in many areas they mostly didn’t publicly speak, besides for Rav Naftuli of Bobov who was much more vocal),
11) Rav Mottele Vizhnitzer (USA),
12) The Brisker Rav,
13) The Chazon Ish,
and the list goes on an on.
(these examples were not gedolim who followed every word of Vayoel Moshe only, but also who generally agreed with the outlook, even if certain specifics were paskened otherwise).

However they are all not mainstream because of their outright anti-zionism, aha i get it, by you zionism is the mainstream? fine then B”H I am not from the mainstream..

Someone needs to write an article on the Zionist rebbes who settled in Jerusalem and Tel Aviv and established courts there starting in the 1920s. Among these were the Drohobyczer Rebbe of Jerusalem (d. 1924), the Husyatiner Rebbe of Tel Aviv (d. 1956), and the Sadigurer Rebbe of Tel Aviv (d. 1972). Also, the Bohusher Rebbe and the Pashkaner Rebbe.

Another buried historical artifact is how a Zionist heir to a very large and prominent Chasidus in Israel was passed over because of his pro-Israel stance.

From the fevered rantings of certain Johnny One-Note commentators, one might think that every Rebbe or Charedi leader shared their views.

Rov Elchonon’s zionism and modern day DL are worlds apart.
You look silly and foolish to equate them.