Maasar sheini today

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  • #2329267
    Punk
    Participant

    I understand during temple times you needed to add a fifth when redeeming the produce onto money to take to Jerusalem. Today it’s only done on a small coin which is gotten rid of somehow.

    A)Whats the reason and earliest source that it doesn’t need to be transferred to the amount of money of the actual produce’s worth?

    B) Seemingly we should either apply the mitzvah or not apply the mitzvah (either cause Jerusalem exists even without the temple, or the temple doesn’t exist so no obligation).

    C) How is the lack of obligation to take to Jeru a sufficient explanation for magic transfers not mentioned in Torah. Someone explain this to me please. Thanks.

    #2329403
    ujm
    Participant

    You could ask similar questions regarding Shmitta.

    #2329409
    Rosen
    Participant

    The answer is :
    The redemption of masser sheni is similar to the redemption of Hekdesh- items that one promised to give as a donation to the Temple.
    Talmud Eruchin 29a Hekdesh worth any amount can be redemed on a small coin- “peruta”. In the time of the Temple, one was not supposed to do so, as the temple would loose out, but when there is no Temple, the temple is not loosing any money, so this can be done.
    Maimondies Laws of Masher sheni chapter 2 law 2 states that the Geonim ruled that masher sheni is the same as hekdesh, and any amount can be redemed on a “peruta”.
    The Talmud in many places brings that although the Temple is destroyed, the sanctity of Jerusalem remains- see megillah 10,zevachim 107b, therefore the mitvah still applies, just one can’t eat maser sheni nowadays, so one is obligated to redem it on a small amount of money.
    I suggest you study more of the Talmud to gain an appreciation of the depth of the Halacha.

    #2329532
    Yaakov Yosef A
    Participant

    A: Gemara Arachin 29a, Rambam Maaser Sheini 2:2, Yoreh Deiah siman 331 se’if 133.

    B: The mitzvah of separating maaser sheini does in fact apply nowadays, but not the mitzvah of eating it. This is derived in the Gemara from a possuk that compares maaser sheini to korbanos. See Makkos 19a.

    C: The reason we do it this way is to prevent accumulation of maaser sheini that is forbidden to be eaten – “mishum takalah”. The reason it works even with a ‘prutah’ is because m’doraisa the prohibition on cheating in transactions doesn’t apply to Hekdesh (including maaser sheini). לא תונו איש את עמיתו meaning ‘colleague’, excludes ממון גבוה. The Rabbanan established a prohibition on cheating Hekdesh, but limited it to when the Bais Hamikdash existed so as to avoid accidentally using Hekdesh nowadays which is forbidden.

    Hope this clarified things for you.

    #2329656
    Punk
    Participant

    Thanks for the explanations and sources.

    #2329712
    richashu
    Participant
    #2329897
    yuda the maccabi
    Participant

    for a short answer
    we do redeem the maaser sheini for what it’s worth, but since it can’t be eaten it is only worth a prutah, even if its a lot of fruit

    #2330006
    Punk
    Participant

    Hekdesh is like margolis and sefer torah. Any specific amount is a drabbanan, and any amount said in Torah, like by redeeming a bechor Adam with five silver coins or by a neder is a chok.

    #2330363
    Punk
    Participant

    @yudathemaccabi is there a source for that reason? Levitcus 27 says to add a fifth, seemingly that should render moot that logic as well as o’naah not applying to maaser sheni.

    The drash of ‘lo sonu ish es achiv’ should seemingly apply to other matters of hekdesh.

    #2330542
    Punk
    Participant

    @richashu
    “Read this” as a stand-alone is not a legitimate answer to a specific question.

    One of the differences between Judaism and l’havdil Christianity is that Judaism’s theology can be explained rather simply and quickly, while a Christain will tell you to read a whole bunch of books written by PHDs to try to make sense of their theology.

    #2330545
    Punk
    Participant

    @Rosen please provide a source that the reason maaser sheini is still applicable is because the sanctity of yerushalayim is forever. Nevertheless, flowing with this logic- on the contrary! Let it be eaten in Yerushalayim! And if it is compared to korbanos to not be eaten there, then it’s a huge dochak to use Yerushalayim as a source for its application today!

    #2330546
    Punk
    Participant

    @Yaakov Yosef A
    A and B is good.

    I am curious regaridng the application of the drash of lo sonu. If a Jew transfered hisbhekdesh’s worth during the beis hamikdash, is he liable on a ‘aseh’ or just a drabbanan?

    How can we say it’s a drabanan if the Torah itself provides a set price for certain transfers in hekdesh?!

    Is the application of the drabbanan in temple times a knas in addition to an aseh? If he is not liable on an עשה then has the Torah spoken for naught when setting specific amounts in weight and silver coins for specific types of Hekdesh?

    If he is liable on an עשה then how can we transfer maaser sheni produce for less than it’s worth? The Torah is clear regarding the worth of a fifth of the produce.

    #2331448
    Punk
    Participant

    What a bunch of arrogant lazy brains in this coffee room. Should have known coming in.

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