First, even though it’s not necessarily in the correct order of the posters, I admit that I made a typo when I wrote Taanis 13 instead of Sotah 13. I have quoted that gemoro in an earlier post and there I wrote Sotah 13.
Now, legufo she inyan. Qwerty and philosopher you are so anti the Lubavicher posters online – and lately that’s mainly Menachem – that you are blinded to the points of the conversation, you veer dangerously close to apikorsus!
1. Because I am not the least bit interested in what that shiksa CO ym”sh says (and I’m not really interested in Shmuley Boteach either) does not mean that I take either side in the argument. I simply don’t care about what she says and hope that the epithet ym”sh indeed happens soon.
2. The fact that Rashi, and the Rif on Ein Yaakov (and, I believe others) explain that Yaakov Avinu was literally buried alive, has nothing whatsoever to do with the Lubavicher rebbe, who was buried after he died. But because you assume (and you may be correct in assuming so) that Menachem and the others want to make that connection, you refuse to accept that there is a VALID opinion that Yaakov did not die and that he is still alive, despite being buried. There isn’t much difference between that approach to that of the Lubavichers who refuse to accept anything which could fly in the face of their claim that the LR is Mashiach.
3. qwerty, your views on ‘rational’ Judaism scare me. I don’t know the Rabbis you keep quoting, but if they say that one cannot accept ‘irrational’ explanations to ‘strange’ statements of Chazal – as Rashi and others clearly do – and that anybody who does is a nutcase, then they are also veering close to apikorsus. I am therefore inclined to be melamed zechus and to believe that in your frenzy you are misquoting them.
4. philospher: It’s a mefureshe pasuk in the Torah that Yaakov Avinu meis. You cannot argue on a pasuk in the Torah. The Gemara is an agadata.
Are you suggesting that Rebbi Yochanan, who said יעקב אבינו לא מת, didn’t know the passuk? Of course he did, but he said his statement anyway. Saying it’s an aggadata does not help. Can you find me any aggadata that directly contradicts a passuk and that is not therefore refuted?
5. I’m still waiting on qwerty to answer the questions I asked…