- This topic has 11 replies, 5 voices, and was last updated 2 months, 2 weeks ago by .
-
Posts
-
to start, i didn’t learn this gemarah in a while.
חסידים הראשונים היו שוהין שעה אחת ומתפללין שעה אחת וחוזרין ושוהין שעה אחת
why dont we follow their example? halachadik? when does davening for 9 hrs, come before learning torah?
וכי מאחר ששוהין תשע שעות ביום בתפלה תורתן היאך משתמרת ומלאכתן היאך נעשית אלא מתוך שחסידים הם תורתם משתמרת ומלאכתן מתברכת
how is it different in yerushalmi, and why?A good question. Interesting, it seems that gemora and meforshim are not even suggesting that we follow that practice.
Could it also be that this was before having siddurim and maybe even before having a fixed prayer? So, then preparing would be more extensive to make sure your prayer goes well.
To expand on your question, Bava Kamma 30 says that hasidim used to be extra careful not to do something that hurts other people. Nobody drives like that anymore. When did this change?
You asked “when does davening for 9 hrs, come before learning torah?”
Ever heard of Yom Kippur? The holiest day of the year. Davening in most shuls on Yom Kippur is longer than 9 hours and people on higher levels spend their entire Yom Kippur in the Bais medrash begging Hashem for teshuva. They sit and say tehillim between musaf and Mincha and never leave the Bais medrash begging Hashem forgiveness.
The Chassidim RIshonim did it because they appreciated the meaning in it. We would do it to copy them. Hashem does not need copycats…
We don’t repeat teflas currently because of kavano as the second time one would also not be mechaven. So we don’t follow this gemara.
is it clear that they were doing it 3 times a day? I had in my head that this was for shaharis only, but now when I looked at it, this might indeed be for other tefilos also. Still, if they did mincha/maariv, I don’t think they meditated between them rather than listening to a Kitzur class!
For shaharis, this is not that remarkable – we are talking an hour before/after shmone esre (tefilah), not before pisukei zimra/shir shel yom or, for chabad, tehilim for rebbe’s age.
Also, given that they probably also worked, their daily calendar is not clear. Maybe they did not sleep much; started a shaah before sunrise, or it is really taking just an hour from the work day.
And – nobody said that shaah is an actual hour and not just a “significant amount of time”
What happens to all the tefilos they miss because of the long shemonei esrei?
Anyway it says before and after but not during.
I think Gemora gives an algorithm how to deal with this davening v learning situation. It concludes that chasidim rishonim were able to keep up with their learning because they got a brocha of retaining their learning. So, anyone can try davening 9 hours a day, and then learn for an hour before going to work get the brocha and continue. If you don’t get this brocha, then you obviously not on the right path for whatever reason and you have to stop.
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.