Based on requests by maranan verabonon shlita rabbonim and educators are warning against the spiritual perils for chareidi vacationers at hotels and bungalows not under rabbinical supervision.
Many people who take pains all year to distance themselves from inappropriate environments are liable to find themselves exposed to terrible spiritual threats. Even if the hotel kitchen has been kashered, the rooms are furnished with television sets and the character of the bungalows and hotels is totally incongruent with the Jewish way of life.
The rabbonim note that those who chose to avoid the hotel atmosphere by staying at bungalows (zimmerim) where the stumbling blocks appear far less severe are sadly mistaken.
Roshei yeshivos say experience shows many bochurim from outstanding bnei Torah homes undergo drastic declines while vacationing at hotels and bungalows. They also received reports on televisions and an unwholesome atmosphere from groups of adults taking part in hotel stays organized by chareidi organizations.
Gedolei Yisroel want it made clear that those who opt to go to such places place themselves in a real nisoyon whereas those who “guard their soul” distance themselves from such places. Those who have already made reservations should ask a rov whether to cancel their reservations.
Those who seek a change of pace can do so by arranging apartment exchanges with other bnei Torah families, but under no circumstances should one rely on the bungalow owners’ assurances that their accommodations are suitable for chareidim.
(The above article was written by Yechiel Sever for Dei’ah veDibur)
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28 Responses
this is really really vague, and a bit late for the summer. It’s also possibly an area of halacha which is relative, not absolute. It also is written from an Israel perspective, but you have an immage of a sign for an american resort.
I am very upset about this article, I think that if a person goes to a Hotel he or she should have some self control and watch things only like the news and that is it, there is nothing wrong with watching the news or a game show to relax, anything else that is on tv i do have to admit may be garbage,but a yid has to learn how to have self contro, it’s funny all these years back from the early 1960’s I never heard of Rabbanim say Oh, you can’t watch tv, all of a sudden it’s a whole new world? give me a break.
You cant have Rabonim regulating bungalow colonies and hotels.
People have to be inspired by the rabonim to make a good decision for themselves.But the action has to come from within each familly and individual.
Otherwise we will have the same debacle as the Lipa concert and the wedding takanos, where the rabonim came out looking very weak .
Today is 8/14 and most people will be out of the ‘skills within 2 weeks from now as Yeshiva will be starting shortly after that.
What is the point about this now? Too little & way too late.
ML
This article is Obviously discussing Israel (from the source of the where the Dei’ah veDibur article)why would you put a picture of Monticello so people should start making all kind of stories?
If you search the history of the Catskills you will find that is was not a charedi vacation place.It was a major resort destination for Jewish New Yorkers in the mid-20th century that was well known for it’s comedians. (Borscht belt)
Just because the charedim turned going upstate into going to the “country” (What country is that? We are still in the USA)does not mean everyone has to conform to charedi standards.
A person who is truly G-d fearing remains so no matter where he is. I am not impressed by people constantly wanting to build the walls higher and higher to keep temptations away. This does not develop the spiritual strength that people need. Bochurim are not infants, they need to learn, with guidance and supervision, how to say “no” to nisyonos. A person has to build up his moral muscles by making good choices.
I refer anyone who dares to read a short story by Mark Twain called “The Man Who Corrupted Hadleyburg”.
What is this post about?
No TV’s then ask the hotel, motel, bungalow to remove or disable the TV. Many yeshivos who take their pupils on class trips, disable the TV’s. Learn how its done, rather than adding another NO-NO to the list.
Why is this dependant on people’s social affiliation as chareidim?
in my humble opinion we should abolish this summer break for bochurim for sure!
it is a burden on parents that is way too difficult to deal with.
i understand that they need a break. so keep them in yeshiva with different summer rebeim, & offer a lighter schedule.
many parents can also not afford all these summer programs, camps etc.
for some reason everybody has money for camp but cannot afford tuition.
the avergae camp is $1500-$1800 for 3-4 weeks & tuition in perportion is no where near that & still people pay for the camps & the yearly mechanchim cant get paid.
someone BIG has to step up & solve this!
So the question that begs answering is why very prestigious Jewish organizations sponsor weekends in these places.
Why are very chosheva hasgachos giving a hasgacha and why are name brand Rabbonim “Rabbis in residence” at these hotels.
I assume this includes the pesach get aways as well. As far as I know hotels do not move the TV’s out of the rooms on Pesach and frumkeit does not magically increase
to all of you….. a person can’t put himself in a situation that he will be tempted to do any type of aveira, who r u kidding, the country is a place where hundreds of people fall everysummer, its a spiral going down a hundred miles an hour, yosef in mitzraim had the strength like rashi says he had a vission of his father in front of him, let’s admit how kosher is it to go to walmart in the mountains? how kosher is it to shmoooooz with everyone in the colony so casual? how kosher is it to bbq together? hashem yishmor we should all be zoche to do good.
I hate to say this, but I think the reason we have such nisyoinis with teens today is based on the attitude of most of the above posts. The attitude seems to be that anyone can put himself into a matzav of nisayon B’kavana, and all he has to do is exercise some self control. Sure, put a bochur with a tv, and tell him it’s ok if he just watches the news or game show. You ppl are NAIVE! Bochurim have ta’avos and one thing may VERY WELL lead to the next. Even the best bochurim can be distroyed from these difficult nisyoinis.
I myself was a very good bochur who almost ruined my life by exposing myself to the internet, videos, and TV. I went late at night to do my thing as it was too hard to stop, and came back in the wee hours of the morning. It thus ruined my focus on learning (I was exhausted) and almost destroyed my life. Thanx to a Rebbe of mine I was saved, and now learning in Kollel.
At the time I was a very enthusiastic 18 year old masmid, but the street is to inviting, and today you can get everything you want. There are enough nisyoinis one will endure in his own life that we don’t need to throw more at him and tell him to have self- control.
To # 12
I’d like to add; I heard s/o say that fathers spend all day and night at work. Leave 7 and return home 7 pm exhausted…. When you ask them y they work so hard they answer “It’s all for the kids”! Not for themselves; nobody just works so hard for themselves… the kids! Then the struggling yeshiva calls them for tuition….. ” I can’t afford full tuition, I have 5 kids in yeshivos etc…. Go figure! Isn’t it all for the kids?!
Whatever happened to personal responsibility and proper derech eretz? Derech Eretz Kadma L’Torah. Are we not educating our children how to act? Have we forgotten common sense? Are we forgetting that when we dress like frum yidden, we need to act like frum yidden. That goes for the Catskills, Brooklyn, etc. too.
Why stop at hotels, motels, bungalow’s, etc.? Let’s ban pizza stores (oh, wait that one is a no-no already), Wal-Mart (I think that one got banned too), shopping while single on 13th Avenue, etc. Let’s take parnassah away from as many people as possible because some of our youth, who should know better or be trained better by their parents and teachers, can’t act properly. Many people make a decent living off of providing us with thing we want to spend money on.
Ah, Sir “Milchig”:
Do you research and you’ll see that the term “going to the country” was actuually coined by the Jewish New Yorkers, in the 50’s and 60’s and has stayed on as relic of that “Borsht Belt” heyday. Something tells me that your more part of the “chareidi vacation place” crowd than the “Jewish New Yorker” crowd, so then the ideas in this Kol Koreh should not be so foreign to you. Take it easy, OK.
There is no doubt these problems exist. Based on this article, there seem to be many people involved in this. There’s the “Rabonim’, “Rosh Yeshivos”, “Gedolei Yisroel” and who could forget the “maranan verabonon shlita”. Was there a gathering, a meeting or any Kol Korehs? Based on the ambiguity of this article, one would be led to believe that this whole commotion is no more than a K’noi venting his anger. Its a shame that this website fails to differentiate between real Das Torah and this ranting. This is part of the reason why there is a general lack of respect toward Das Torah. There are too many people claiming to be giving over authentic Torah veiws.
….The rabbonim note that those who chose to avoid the hotel atmosphere by staying at bungalows (zimmerim) where the stumbling blocks appear far less severe are sadly mistaken….
I can’t work out what this means – can anyone help. I am unsure about this evil Hotel Atmosphere (the only thing mentioned is a TV -nothing new there – but what is intrinsically wrong with the atmosphere? You can’t smoke in hotels so that can’t be the meaning. Maybe this is something American or E Israeli so as a European I don’t understand. My job involves travelling. I stay in a lot of hotels what am I supposed to be avoiding other than the TV? I find aircraft and airports (and summer streets) a far worse environment for Orthodox travellers than the hotels. In my hotel room at least I can open my eyes!
to #3
t.v. in the 1960s was very different (not that everything shown then was mutar either). And the rabbonim didn’t wake up yesterday. The agudah (including all of the members of the moetzes at the time – R’ Moshe, R’ Yakov, etc.) officially spoke out against wathing/having a t.v.
Aside from TV, there are other unTorahdik challenges tempting us, such as boundaries of intimacy in bungalow colonies – how well are youngsters and adults prepared to accommodate appropriately within hashkafa guidelines? Perhaps shiurim in the communities and in the classrooms could address these from a halachic and practical perspective. Chani F
the mountains are full with torah v’yiras shomayim,ie. camp morris , ohr sharga,camp agudah,the mutitudeness of the chasidishe camps.these are the boys camp, and then you have the girls camp, many al pi drect hazedek v’kedusha.and you have the yeshivas of south fallsburgh and mountaindale and the chasideshe yeshivos… and all of these yshivos are sorrounded by very frum and erlicher familys living in homes near by to be in there seviva. and then you have the multitudeness of very frum bungalow colonies where you have torah, tefilla and tzedaka.
for the exception, dont you have it in new york? ,
what is wrong with everyone
havent the rabbonim in europe gone on vacation in the summer
why make a tight knot around e/o’s neck when this is all so normal and traditional(not some new style)?!!
don’t u realize that when u tighten something for no good reason it might just touch a wrong nerve and get ppl to rebel
please just be normal and ehrlich–no need to be extreme
“Sure, put a bochur with a tv, and tell him it’s ok if he just watches the news or game show.”
To # 14, game shows are terrbly untznius in many ways
to all who complained about the timing of this article: well guess what, the summer bein hazmanim in EY began only a week ago, after Tisha B’Av. I guess The above-mentioned Rabbonim can’t possible fathom that 100’s of 1000’s of people would be mafkir an entire 8+ weeks worth of summer every year
to #24..native israeli..when is it, at what point, that you can consider ‘normal?, you have ‘reform, conservative, centrist christian (one of original reform movements etc., according to them its normal in what they believe in), so can you write down your own shulchen urach so we can know when we are normal and at what opoint we crossed over from being normal to not normal anymore?
#12 you ask a good question
to nativeisraeli..also you dont do the riboni sel oilem a favor by keeping his torah . there is nothing mentioned in this ‘kol korah’ that the rabbonim came up with their own ‘noose to tighten’. also none of these rabbonim came to your house and shoved a ‘kol korah’ down your throat forcing you to abide, just ignore it. what happened to free speech?
to #21 as if issur had to be issued..