A delegation of Roshei Yeshivos from the US landed in Eretz Yisrael on Wednesday in order to consult with Rosh Yeshivas Slabodka, HaGaon HaRav Moshe Hillel Hirsch, about the shidduch crisis in the US, Kikar H’Shabbat reported on Wednesday.
The report notes the fact that although there are shidduch issues in every country, including Israel, the US has the specific problem that bochurim start shidduchim at a later age than Israeli bochurim (who usually start around age 21) because most spend at least a year or two learning in an Israeli yeshivah. This results in the famous “age disparity” issue that places girls at a huge disadvantage.
The administrator of a US yeshivah told Kikar: “We have a real problem here and we have to solve it. Roshei Yeshivos held meetings a number of times in order to discuss the issue but nothing has really succeeded yet in solving the problem.”
“Roshei Yeshivos decided that the phenomenon of learning at a later age in Eretz Yisrael needs to end but they don’t want to take responsibility alone for such a fateful question. Therefore, a decision was made that a number of leading Roshei Yeshivos will travel to Eretz Yisrael for a few hours and consult with the one who leads the yeshivos in Eretz Yisrael, HaGaon HaRav Moshe Hillel Hirsch [who is originally from the US], and whatever he decides is what will happen.”
Sources told YWN that the Roshei Yeshivos also discussed the issue of eliminating one year of Beis Medrash in US yeshivos in order to allow bochurim to go to Eretz Yisrael at an earlier age.
The report noted that HaRav Hirsch is not only a native English speaker but is also very familiar with the Olam HaYeshivos in the US.
Four of the Rabbanim in the delegation are HaGaon HaRav Mordechai Dick, Rosh Yeshivas Heichel HaTorah in Monsey, HaGaon HaRav Mendel Slomowitz, Rosh Yeshivas Toras Chaim in Lakewood, HaRav Yehudah Svei, one of the Roshei Yeshivos of Talmudical Yeshiva Of Philadelphia, and the Novominsker Rebbe.
(YWN Israel Desk – Jerusalem)
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32 Responses
Wow big news! Hoping for a positive outcome. There just is no other option. Please say a kappitel tehillim for the success of this meeting. This is the issue facing a larger segment of klal yisroel than almost any other issue.
What is disturbing is that this delegation didn’t include even 1 of the 4 Lakewood Rosh-Yeshiva, and we all know why:- Because they would have been requested in no uncertain terms, to abolish their “Freezer” policy.
Gainful employment
Particularly sad is that yeshivos are apt to continue whatever they were doing, despite an agreement of these Roshei Yeshivos to the contrary. Not pessimistic, just realistic.
There are things that have become cultural trends, and interventions such as Kol Korehs, conclusions of Moetzes Gedolei Hatorah, and the like have little effect. It’s like climate change. It will take decades to reverse those patterns. Who said that the mobility of yeshiva bochurim learning first here, then there, and then another place is actually positive for the development of true klai kodesh? Exposure to multiple derochim in learning might sound wise, but it actually impedes the development of a clear derech. I know this is what is done today, but who claims this is good? The Gedolei Yisroel of prior generations were not mobile, and they rose to their greatness. I don’t know to whom to attribute the pattern of moving around, changing yeshivos, Americans going to Eretz Yisroel, etc. I don’t know that it’s that terrible, but I don’t see it helping much either. And if it contributes to the shidduch crisis, it needs to be re-examined.
I will tell you from experience that we in Lakewood follow what OUR rosh yeshiva do say and do. If they dont agree, we will NOT follow it.
147, I don’t know if this was verified, but many years ago the hock among yeshiva bochurim was that BMG was thinking of taking away the freezer to solve the shidduch crisis. R’Malkiel Shlita went to EY to discuss it with the gedolim then and was told that it wouldn’t make a difference as anyways bochurim who want to skip the freezer would just go to a different yeshiva.
Forget freezers. Post EY Yeshivas should have a policy that they wont accept anyone that has already turned 22. Problem solved.. Everyone further back in the supply chain will need to figure it out. Interesting that with so many real issues that are complicated to solve in the community this one is totally self inflicted and the solutions totally in front of us if we just choose to.
Let’s face it, a big part of the problem that no one talks about is that bachurim want support in order for them to be able sit and “learn” long term. It is not just age.
No one wants to address the real issue: Girls are only willing to marry Kollel guys and refuse to go out with “working guys” no matter how good his middos might be!
Why go to Israel? can figure out the solution in the USA? frankly all of the above named Rosh Yeshivas are nogeyah bdovar
just marry off the litvish girls to chashidish boys and let those who are in freezzer frezzzze problem solved
The main problem is the pickyness. This one is not rich enough, that one is not choshuv enough, the other one has a OTD brother, this one father is not yeshivish and the list goes on and on. If people would put aside their pettiness and look at the boy and the girl for who they are then half the problem would be solved.
Sounds like this
Because of the great state of Israel we have this crises of to many girls for the boys cause when they get older it’s too late for them to marry the boys of yeshiva so we got to get then married younger
Take care
Why are can’t the order all their talmidim to not marry people who are four years younger than them and instead marry someone their age (crazy, no?) This can give the girls time to become independent and build a career instead of rushing tk get married a year after seminary which is only a year after high school!
Why are can’t the order all their talmidim to not marry people who are four years younger than them and instead marry someone their age (crazy, no?) This can give the girls time to become independent and build a career instead of rushing to get married a year after seminary which is only a year after high school!
I wish hatzlacho to all the girls waiting!!!!!!!
Barn Owl, agreed.
I don’t profess to have the answer (s) to the very real Shidduch challenges, nevertheless, there are several points to consider in assessing and attempting to stem the issues and challenges. To preface, the reader must have an open mind, and be honest, realistic, and sensible with themselves (vis a vis those in Shidduchim, and or their more involved or meddling parents, as you wish). No doubt the pain and anguish of singles and their parents is raw. These challenges engage those in Shidduchim of varying stripes and nuances of the mainstream that do not get dates and those of the same that do get dates.
Firstly, we do not understand the profound and calculated ways of KBH. But we (whether one is in Shidduchim, has children/grandchildren in Shidduchim, is not yet in Shidduchim, does not yet have children/grandchildren in Shidduchim, or chas V’Shalom will unfortunately not have children/grandchildren in Shidduchim) must continue and increase our Tefillos and other merits that KBH should put a stop to this burgeoning magaifa.
There is no singular right answer in remedying the crisis. There are variables with varying levels of substance that may or actually do influence, contribute to, and or play a heavier handed role in the tragedy that has become of Shidduchim. There are also less substantive mindsets and trends that have become culturally accepted, and have become common cultural mores if you will, and thus feeds the beast, and the tragic result lives another moment, lives another day, and unfortunately lives another generation. So much so that a new standard has been set.
This post has been drafted with a neutral angle of sorts, and allows one to use and apply this paradigm with whatever is ones stripe or nuance.
Of the aforementioned yet not elaborated variables, what applies to one may not apply to another. There is no panacea. Each stripe and nuance needs to properly assess and react accordingly. I chose not to elaborate as much as I would have liked, b/c justice will not be served. Such requires an army to take charge and make changes.
At the least one should also do as much as they can to get involved in facilitating Shidduchim. Of course due diligence and appropriate vetting is helpful. BeH something fruitful will come of it.
. I want to ask forgiveness in advance to all the people that invested their time and soul into helping alleviate this problem. Even a combination of everyone’s resources and talents working together, such as software and strategies etc., would not help. however none of the solutions and organizations involved can fully tackle this issue head-on and remove the problem once and for all, yes everyone that pul lev vnefesh will get a big chelek in oilam haba far more then a guy like me who is just putting forth suggestions, but The only solution to once and for all take care and remove this problem for older girls still single and to prevent it from happening in the future , to have a particular person with ambitions that only someone like Moishe Reichman had to be willing to channel his tremendous ambition and high hasogas instead of building skyscrapers in manhattan or creating a new manhattan altogether in london . Just like Mr Reichman’s dreams that no one has, even by today’s standards, were needed in his day to support Jewish orthodoxy in postwar America. So, someone in 2023 with this kind of potential needs to realize that even though he could devote his energies to incredible wealth, he will devote himself to this cause instead. Just like rabbi Teitz dedicated his life to helping Russian Jews, the same applies to this person. 1)The main idea would be to gather one database that lists every unmarried girl over the age of 24 in the entire united states, From communities in new york such as Seagate, boro park and Lakewood to districts in Chicago and California. Anywhere in South America and Europe, such as Mexico, Brazil, Argentina, Belgium, London and France. After every last girl is accounted for and the database shows a total of 4500 girls that need to get married, efforts to obtain 4500 boys to marry them will begin.
2) A second database will then begin gathering the names of boys over the age of 23 outside the US. They would be either fully or partially Israeli. There would also be boys from communities in Europe and South America, such as Strasbourg, located in France, Antwerp, brazil and Panama. This organization will also have people doing the required information check as if they are doing shidduch research for their own child and then go down to meet with the parents of both sides and present the facts and spell out the differences and potential cons. 3) this is the most crucial part and is dependent on everything, These would have to be a group of very talented individuals who are good at convincing but simultaneously stay completely truthful and honest.and are truly caring not just dealmakers whose soif is kavod atmo hu doiresh, they would have to be yiras shmayim and gutte mentchen not to do anything that could brign them kavod and recognition, For instance,15-20 boys from France that have a Sephardic background can be matched up with girls from New york that are of Ashkenaz background. A 23-year-old American Israeli boy can go out with a 25-year-old girl from Lakewood. To prevent this shidduch crisis happening in the future 4) This organization will also focus on building affordable apartment buildings and job creation for those that would like to learn in Israel after their marriage. In the last two years, significant gains have been made to help alleviate the housing crisis for those learning in Lakewood yeshiva, Such as buying up the property nearby with plans to build affordable housing. There is no reason we shouldn’t embrace such an initiative to address the Israel problem by making it easier for married couples to go after their married. This organization will also cover airfare expenses to get this shidduch off the ground and any bureaucratic headaches after marriage. 5) Once this is all taken care of, prevention would be needed to be made to avoid any possible reemergence of the shidduch crisis by calling a meeting with the heads of 200 or so yeshivas in America who agree that only one or two boys from their yeshiva can go off to learn in Israel before their married everyone else can stay longer in their yeshivas and go learn in school and be dating by 21-22 if they are ready. Everyone knows that 90% of boys, even very serious ones, are not holding by switching over to kodshim at such a young age. I am certain that if you would find someone who is a big learner who is with the program has a very big personality and more or less is well acquainted with everyone in his age group five years before him and five years above him in the tri-state area, he will tell you with absolute certainty that very few boys need to be going to such high-level topics at that age. They would be better off doing Nashim Nezikin. Only certain boys who are huge learners and everyone in the class knows this person has a unique soul should be allowed entry when he is still not married.
The entire thing of running off to Israel to grab one and half years of high-level topics with an eye focused on getting married only to come back to Lakewood and enrol in a high-level Chabura that is plunging the depths of bava metzia . This is completely ridiculous and makes absolutely no sense. We all know very few people experience growth in Israel.
Ifsince this project requires a tremendous amount of siayata dishmaya , in order for the people involved to have this tremndous yehoshua for all of american jewry , he would have to maintain very high levels of kedusha more then the standard laymen especially that men and woman interact with each other in shidduchim. only then will he be the tzinor, the pipe that brings about this incredible shefa and bracha and solving this problem that is talented and willing to take on this initiative, 90% of girls that are over the age of 24 will be happily married within 5-10 years, guaranteed and endless oilam habah nachla bli mitzrayim but he would need to work on ahavas yisroel of the lubavitcher rebbe and the way the satmar fought to build yiddishkeit in america with hard work, both of htese malachim were only able to accomplish becuase they had no personal needs they were selfless, there was no such a thing as alone time” me my needs my peace and quiet you dont find that by gedolim that is for the next world, respectfully, name withheld
If I read one more comment about how there is no single answer, need more tefilla, cultural modes, databases of boys and girls, need a gevir to help, boys too picky…
You are both dead wrong. There IS one singular answer that drives everything and that is more boys than girls due to boys marrying too late. No gevir, database, Shadchan, or similar will have any impact unless the numbers are equal and therefore insufficient supply of boys. And once the numbers are made equal there will not be a problem at all as everyone now must compromise their high horses per rules of supply and demand. Very important to understand this point and stop writing long bleeding heart liberal propaganda that has zero relevance to the root problem or solution. This is the singular cause and resolving this is the singular solution. This problem does not exist elsewhere in the world.
@yochy but the age gap has been debunked. Moreover, without adequate data, how do you substantiate your claim? Maybe you are dead wrong.
A large part of the solution needs to be girls getting engaged, or even married, while in 12th grade. The earlier they marry, the far less likely the girl will be a victim of the shidduch crisis.
Instead of making the boys marry younger, why not make the girls marry older? If the Rabonim make a takana that ALL shadchanim are not to deal with girls younger than 21, then the numbers will be more equal. It will take the pressure off the girls, who can then have a little life experience after coming home from seminary [work, study etc] and be more ready for married life.- [Sugya’s wife]
You gotta love seeing every guy with his own take on this situation. Maybe let’s leave it to our Gedolim!
@mikee, in der heim, people got married late and were able to raise beautiful doros, every Moshe Yankel did need to give his take.
Excuse my ignorance but how would this solve the problem? If the problem is that in every birth year there are more boys than girls then how will making boys enter shidduchim earlier than say 23 help? Surely there will always be more boys than girls?
@ genuk shoin it’s very important to realize that the most important thing when it comes to shiduchim is culturally. People who are different culturally will have a very hard time getting along. Marriage is not just pairing people together. It’s having two adults live together day in and day out. Cultural differences will play a big role and will be very hard to have Shalom bayis with people from different countries and total different cultures marry each other. Recently in the name of achdus I have heard of such rhetoric. The reason our society different cultures don’t marry each other is for a very smart reason. Taking two people from extreme backgrounds is not smart. Achdus means respecting the others side and what they stand for while staying strong in your own mesorah. There is the Torah that must be followed, but what to focus on, and how to go about that within the parameters of strict Halacha has different paths
Why not let each person, both males and females, get married when they’re ready? Why force the issue? There is no reason, and it’s sad that people waste so much time and energy on this.
@Sugya25 you are 100% correct!! No one can give a good explanation for why this approach is not implemented. If girls date later, they can then date boys their age who already have a few years of learning. We close the age gap and have everyone in a more mature place with hopefully some thought to how they want their life to look. We solve the shidduch and divorce crisis at once.
Edit: more girls than boys.
Unfortunately, some people illogically still believe that the problem is ‘being picky’ or not having enough shadchanim etc. The fact that the problem is caused by the age gap can be proved by math!
More girls unmarried means by definition not enough boys.
If the average generation is 30 years (20-40) and the average frum family has 6.3 children (actually it is 6.6), since the replacement rate for a generation is 2.1 (two parents plus infertile people etc.) = growth rate of 200% every 30 years.
So an age discrepancy of 3 years means 20% (3/30 X 2) of girls have no shidduch for them, 4 years equals 26.7% (4/30 X 2) of girls with no eligible boy!
How can people deny such facts? Even if we take into account people leaving the yeshiva community, this is still a grave mathematical crisis.
Maybe we can also encourage girls to pursue a better career for a year or two?
Here in Eretz Yisrael litvishe girls seldom marry before 19-20.
@baltimoredaas thank you for reading my long megillah I am genuinely appreciative someone took the time to read it yess you have alot of common sense and are practical and i am imaginary and not realisitic but it is precisley ordinary people from where you live that dont have big hasogas to help people ein hacha nami the salvation wont come from people like you