Reply To: The Five Most Likeliest Candidates to be Moshiach

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#2170580
benToiroh
Participant

Avira, I did not say a Prime Minister is betur Melech. Just because he is voted in doesn’t make the position one of Malchus. The Israeli President is more like a Melech than the PM, but I didn’t say he is either. How you attribute what was not said is baffling.
And no, annoininting is not required but under certain circumstances, which if don’t apply, no annointing is necessary Again, not sure how you get your ideas.

The Abarbenel on Derech Eretz Zuta most certainly allows for Moshiach from Techiyas Hamaisim. How you claim something doesn’t exist while citing the wrong source at this point doesn’t surprise me.

“Supposed” Sidei Chemed??! Clearly you didn’t even do a Google search before employing such idiotic phrasing. I’ll let you have sechar halicha to discover you can find it easily yourself, with even an English search.

It doesn’t surprise me that the Rambam went over your head, so I’ll help with this:
Rambam rules: “if he does not accomplish this much OR is killed know that he is not the one that…”
For the discerning individual: “if he does not accomplish this.much OR is killed..” is saying ‘our Moshiach will accomplish every last one of these things, and won’t be someone who was killed (but if he does, he may still), so don’t conclude it is definitely him without seeing all these things’.
. If the first statement doe ve anything to do with someone dying, as is obvious by what immediately follows “or if he was killed”, which demonstrates that this was not already included in the first statement.
2. This one might need some effort on your part.. “or” means what follows wasn’t already included. Basic logic! So the first clause DEFINITELY didn’t exclude someone who passed (only to then say or *someone who passed in some specific particular manner*!!!
So like Rambam says in the previous Halacha, he must build the Bais HaMikdash and gather all the Jews, so even building the B”H is not the definitive (so if he passes, he may return and gather, and should he do so then he will be definitively known to be the one the Torah promised).

Also see the previous Halacha there where Rambam gives a different list for who can qualify to be considered Moshiach. And he follows with the full objective which confirms an assumed individual. And he adds (that quoted above) that the Moshiach Torah promised is not someone who qualifies and is considered Moshiach, but someone who also follows through with the rest of the mission.

Lastly, you are missing PSHAT again. Rashi says “kegoin” Daniel, meaning not Daniel necessarily, but a similar individual; meaning he did not make any reference to when the person might live. The insinuation that Rashi indicates someone in that time is totally made up, especially since Rashi is saying it hundreds of years later. Furthermore, like I pointed out, Rambam says specifically what qualifies someone to be considered Moshiach even before the B”HM is built, go see Hilchos Melachim ch 11. Clearly you can learn more before you assume to correct.

The main question relating to there is: does “fighting Hashem’s battles” mean actual physical war, or ‘Hashem’s battles’ means spiritual battles. For earlier there Rambam refers to Milchemes Rishus and Milchemes Mitzvah, so this is seemingly something else. Fighting for Emunah, an ideological war…

Either way, your comment from beginning to end shows you should consider what another is saying *from their perspective* before you rush with a reply. So take this again from the top, and see what I see, before you try to imply that *I am not the one understanding*.
If you can see my view and you want to point out something, try asking a thoughtful question.

And again, the Sidei Chemed and the Abarbenel
DEFINITELY say Moshiach can come via T”HM. And Rambam DEFINITELY only excludes one who was killed.

See also Or HaChaim, Parshas Balak, on Bamidbar 24:17, “A star shall shoot forth from Yaakov”: “If Binei Ysrael are found worthy, Mashiach will be revealed from heaven.”

Hatzlacha Rabba!