Reply To: Medinah

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AviraDeArah
Participant

Y – i didn’t mean to be exhaustive; i quoted the opinions that most gedolim held, in one form or another. Some of the names you quoted are not accurate, including rav yaakov, but others don’t hold a candle to the chazon ish, brisker rov, etc…

As for rav ovadia not only believing that there were miracles but that that somehow shows Hashem’s approval of the state…i don’t recall him saying that, but it’s a mistake either way, because the Torah says clearly in open pesukim that we’re not supposed to listen to miracles if they are done by false neviim. Even the chashmonaim weren’t certain of the miracles they experienced until the neis of the pach shemen.

It remains to be explained how it’s a tenable position that something which by its very existence is the biggest global chilul Hashem – akin to putting up billboards all over the world that Jewish people are tel aviv culture and nationalists – can be a good thing. Was there peripheral benefit? Yes. Is there an idea that we need to be grateful to Hashem for that benefit despite whatever else is going on? Some looked at it that way. But to look at it positively overall or as some messianic thing… It’s just a dimyon which has proven to be false, because it’s been 73 years and moshiach has not come yet.