21 Responses

1. 1. Will the hiloni media notice? (probably)Will it have an impact on them (maybe, but most hiloni regard hareidim as sitting around all day being bored)

   2. Will it affect the relationship between the three major hareidi factions (that sit in the Kenesset, accept government money, and need a solution to preserve a working relationship with the zionists, and base their objections based on the idea of bitul Torah and hostile conditions of service for frum soldiers) and the anti-zionist hareidim (who reject government money and wouldn’t mind striking a mortal against the government, and clearly conscientious objectors since they regard the Medinah and its wars as against Torah)

2. Why are YWN’s headlines so often (i) awful and (ii) not based on the information in the article? This headline uses a phrase, “Million Man [event]”, that for American readers evokes the unmentionable name of a race-baiting, Quran quotating (or maybe misquotating, I would not know) bow-tie wearing, formerly Calypso-playing anti-Semite. And, like the unaforenamed anti-Semite, the event will not, according to the article, be attended by a million men, only hundreds of thousand (says the article), which is no small number, but why overstate a case that undermines your credibility while failing to overmine your story. A million men is 13% of the Israeli population and 25% of the Israeli male population. No country can muster that big a turnout to any single event. I wonder whether that many Israelis even show up for Kol Nidre or Yom Kippur.

   Moderators Response: Because that is what it it being labeled as in the Israeli media. “A million man atzeres”.

3. Kudos to yeshiva world news. The only way to bring change is to bring the masses into the streets. The same was done in ukraine,Egypt,Libia etc and all its evil leaders were put on the run. Imagine all the secular anti chareidi polticians like Lapid and Perez having to run from israel. Let’s get chareidim on the supreme court and throw out the racist judges there now.

4. Aaron Kuperman,

   While your political opinions are often correct and accurate not just on this site but on many others, I think you may have missed the whole point. Rav Steinman is saying that this is about crying over chillul Hashem, not trying to change, impact or affect anything.

5. COMMENT DELETED

   Moderators Note: Why are you trying to stir a non-existent pot? Maybe, just maybe he was at the meetings?

6. #4- Gedolim do not do whining, and crying without addressing the problem is whining. And merely making a loud public statement is in many ways self-executing as a response since the hilonim in Israel believe that most hareidim are anxious for a chance to give up being hareidi and becoming “normal”, and most of the rest of the world tends to identify orthodox Jews as quasi-militarists anxious for any oportunity to attack Arabs.

7. I pray they have the wisdom not to cause traffic havoc as some recent event have had, and which played out very negatively for masses of joe shmoes stuck, missing appointments, wasting fuel, etc.. You don’t have to be hiloni media to wonder what misheberach to give to these peaceable assemblies.

8. #6 What we do on Tisha B’Av is not whining. It is supposed to be a natural reaction to having lost something. Many people cried when they heard about the Gross girls. Rav Steinman wants us to understand that that is how we should be feeling. This is about educating us not about educating them.

9. #3- “The only way to bring change is to bring the masses into the streets. The same was done in Ukraine, Egypt, Libya etc” – What ‘masses’ are you talking about? For all the self-aggrandizing blather about a ‘million man atzeret’ charedim are a small minority in Israel. The vast majority of Israelis see the charedi refusal to serve as deeply and fundamentally immoral – if not worse. You may gain some marginal support from the extreme fringes of the charda”l community but on this issue charedim are on their own.

   In fact, despite the portrayal of monolithic charedi oppostion to service in the charedi media, there are more than a few charedim who wish to serve and refrain from doing so only from fear of harm coming to their families, vd”l.

   In short, while we have seen time and again that there is no shortage of charedi hooligans who will cheer for any excuse to take to the streets, charedi opposition to service has absolutely no hope of turning into a cause that will overthrow the government through ‘street power’ as you so idly wish.

10. Why is these mk trying to run r shteinman its bad enough his gaiboim do we need people from the kneset also?

11. To yagel Libi comment response
    Fact is that chareidim are not a minority in Israel. They are the fastest growing population. And there is one more important factor. The general israeli population is an aging one. The chareidim are the future. The fact is that fifty per cent of israeli first graders are chareidim. The chareidim have the power of youth. The secular youth are fleeing israel in mass. Its not difficult to take over the government. Its far easier than ukraine. In fact thirty per cent of secular israelis dodge the draft.

12. Tzvi hersh: While hareidim may soon be a majority of the Jewish population, Israel includes many goyim including Arabs (most of whom prefer a zionist state to an Islamic one) and assorted goyim who might have some Jewish ancestry (and who are quite secular). Furthermore, Israel is at war and any hareidi takeover needs to be accompanied by an end to the war (and while Satmar might agree to negotiate terms the Arabs can accept involving Jews as an autonomous minority, the other frum parties so far appear to be very nationalistic Israelis except when it comes to an unwillingness to join the army).

13. #11- Reb Tzvi, charedim may be the fastest growing sector of Israel’s population but they are still comprise only 10% of its Jewish population (i.e., roughly 600,000) – which is still a small minority.

    And no, charedi children do not comprise anything like 50% of Israeli first graders; you are probably misremembering articles that warned that if current demographic trends do not change then in the future charedi and Arab children together may make up 50% of the first grade population.

    And no, the general israeli population is not an aging one. Israel has one of the youngest populations of any developed nation and birth rates amongst non-charedi Jewish Israelis are actually quite high.

    And no, the secular youth is not fleeing Israel nor do anything like thirty per cent of secular Israelis dodge the draft; once again, you seem to be misremembering articles regarding the percent of Israeli youths who do not serve, almost all of whom receive exemptions as either: (1) Arabs (2) charedim – ‘toratam umanutam’ or (3) religious girls. The infamous ‘Tel-Aviv draft dodgers’ represent but a tiny fraction of those who do not serve. Numerically, they are insignificant.

    But shoin, you want to overthrow the government and think that you have the numbers to do it? – I shall watch your attempt with great interest.

14. Re Comment No. 11: Chareidim are presently a minority, but the growth trend indicates that Chareidim in the future will, if current trends continue, be a majority of the population of the State of Israel. So it is time for the Chareidim to start thinking about how they will run the State of Israel when they are in a position to take over.

    If Moshiach comes, problem solved. If Moshiach does not come when the Chareidim are a majority of the Israeli State population, the Chareidim will have to face the following questions and issues:

    1. Who will staff the IDF.

    2. Who will pay the taxes.

    3. Who will collect the garbage, staff the hospitals, make the electricity and the pizza, build the houses and roads, grow the crops, play basketball?

    4. Who will convince the secular population to stay in Israel? And what allowances will have to be made to convince the seculars to stay? For example, will their be a “reverse eruv” delinieating areas where people will be permitted to be non-tznius?

    The Chareidim must address these questions now, as I think you are correct about the growth of the Chareidi vs. secular populations.

15. To akuperma comment response. If chareidim take over things will become normal. Crime will go down drasticly. Anyone caught throwing rocks will get ten years of a tough working prison stay. Anyone commiting murder will receive death penalty. No pork or other such torah violations will be legal. Israel will become the worlds spiritual center and not znus center. Large chareidi families will all have an acre of land with a big one family home. All building over three stories will be illegal residential and will either be demolished or become commercial office space only. Sundays will be a day off for shopping while sha bos will be a complete shut down other than emergency situations. The arab world will respect us for being examples of G-ds people. Europe can fly a kite and dare they tell us what to do.workers from around the world will be happy to work in israel. We just need a chareidi government anf everything will fall into place.

16. #14- B”H the charedi population in Israel is growing at a nice rate but we are still a long, long way from the day when they become the majority even if current demographic trends hold.

    And that caveat – even if current demographic trends hold – is an important one. Let’s remember that for several decades Israeli demographers regularly issued warnings about the demographic threat from Arabs, whose birth rates had skyrocketed while the birthrates of Israeli Jews waned. You hardly hear that threat being issued anymore and the reason for that is that Arab birthrates went back down while Jewish birth rates climbed back up and the current difference is small enough that aliyah can compensate for it fairly easily.

    But I certainly agree that the charedi population has become so large that it can no longer reasonably expect non-charedi Israelis to take care of business while it sits on the sidelines.

17. ngfo3. Almost 50% of chareidim today work. We pay taxes too, duh! The IDF will soon turn into a professional army with paid soldiers. Basketball- the same people that do today. And you can collect the garbage; you’re so full of it already!

18. #15- Akuperma’s solution to all that is to let everyone in Israel be under Muslim rule. That way, things will REALLY be normal!? (The guy’s delusional).

19. i hope the chareidi tzibur takes action to see to it that this remains peaceful. there are although very few rotten apples who can spoil this whole thing by doing something ridiculous. like atarting up with police and soldiers.

20. Yanky55 – if you and your friends are offering only an alternative of a Medinat Yisrael without Torah and Mitsvos, in which Jews are thrown in prison for being too frum — then the only options for those who tremble in awe of Ha-Shem are to go to golus or to support an Eretz Yisrael under non-Jewish rule. Ha-Shem gave us Eretz Yisrael as a place of Torah and MItsvos, and specially warned that those who go off the derekh will be “vomitted out” (not my words, I’ld include a footnote if this were a scholarly paper) – no mention was ever made of having Eretz Yisrael so we can be a “startup nation” or to do have the world’s most “gay friendly” army (again, I’m quoting one of the secular papers).

    If you tell us to choose between a Medinat Yisrael without Torah, or Palestine (or exile) with Torah, we will choose Torah.

21. I am glad that you have thought about the questions I raised, and I hope you are right that the 50% of the Chareidi population that engages in non-study work is sufficient to keep the State of Israel strong. As for my collecting the garbage, notwithstanding the qualification you attribute to me, I am prohibited for medical reasons from engaging in heavy lifting.