Speaking with Channel 10 News on the Shaked Committee and efforts to pass a new chareidi draft law, Shas leader Aryeh Deri calls to differentiate between chareidim and avreichim. Deri explained that not every chareidi is an avreich, and from his perspective, one who is not sitting and learning should serve in the IDF.
Regarding avreichim, Deri explained the state must understand that the limud Torah “protects the nation no less than the front line soldiers” and he warned that efforts to seek to pull people from the beis medrash will not yield good results.
(YWN – Israel Desk, Jerusalem)
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13 Responses
No Chaereidi, even one not learning but working, should cv serve in the IDF. The IDF is a spiritual danger to any Jew with their rampant immorality. Even Rav Shteinman said people who can’t learn should not serve in the IDF:
http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/news/israel-news/160906/maran-r-shteinman-tells-yeshiva-student-to-go-to-india-instead-of-idf.html
1. The people who run Israel can’t tell the difference.
2. If they exempted yeshiva students, the pro-zionist yeshiva world would have no trouble getting along with the state. Under the status quo ante they allowed or encouraged dropouts to enlist in hareidi framework, and would do so in the future (especially if the government gives money to them as they did in the past).
3. The ones screaming the loudest are anti-zionists, who hold that the state is contrary to halacha. They are the ones who don’t accept zionist money, and object to serving in the military regardless of whether one is learning. In the past a conflict was avoided by treating them as yeshiva students (they only had to claim that Torah was their profession – all frum Jews can say that with a straight face). They should be exempted as conscientious objectors, which would be hard for Israel to do since they don’t want to admit that their version of Jewish history and law (i.e. we have a right to chase the Arabs our of Eretz Yisrael at this time) is not so clear.
When the issue of giyus noshim was raised in the early years of the state, and the government leaders threatened to draft the b’nei Yeshivah if the women would not serve, our leaders said so we will close the Yeshivos, but the women cannot serve (i.e. it is yeihoreig v’al ya’avor). I am not saying the Brisker Rav and the Chazon Ish held it was mutar for them to serve, but they certainly did not hold it was assur under any and all circumstances. We are lost now, precisely because our situation has never had to be addressed. May the Ainei HaAidah be granted the siyata d’Shmaya needed.
Oh, so there are some chareidim who know that the IDF does not equal shmad? I think he knows this better than all the posters that claim that it is.
Shuali – It’s not within your right to make such assumptions. You never had a close Kesher with either of them. Our present Gedolim did however. I’m sure they know exactly how the Brisker Rav and Chazon Ish thought. Leave it to them to lead us in the path of Hashem.
akuperma [2]
Again and again. You sound like an intelligent person, yet you always confuse your terminology.
Not only those who “don’t take money from the state” are “anti zionists who believe the state is contrary to halacha”.I went through this many times, and it’s simply falsehood.
and at this point, the yidden do not have where to go. Even if the state is just another place in Golus, as in Europe or Russia, and the Zionists are the Goyishe government ruling over us, when Goyim attack your shteitel to rob and kill you are allowed to fight back, as yidden always tried to do if they could, and it’s not a sign that you are rebelling against the golus.
To think that all yidden should just pack out, or that they can live under Hamas rule, is just as naive as thinking that the Satmar opinion is somehow more Torahdik than Rav Steimans…
MDShweks:
They have nowhere to go?
Months ago, Rav Meshulam Dovid Soloveichik publicly contemplated returning to Russia.
You’re saying that with all the millions of dollars of tzedakah spent on our brethren in Eretz Yisrael, that those living under Zionist oppression couldn’t be relocated to a country that at least tolerates religion?
The Brisker Rav said a Jewish galus is the worst galus of all.
Chareidi and religious are two different things that presently overlap for the most part. Chareidi is a socio-economic way of life which was spawned by religious people. The two catagories are considered as one for now. As time goes on they will be more and more separate.
MDG #8: Being that you are neither of them, you cannot speak as to its definitions or practices.
I’m not chareidi, but I wake up early to learn and daven. OTOH, I have cousins in E”Y who wake up real late, missing zmanim, daven in their living room in a hurry, and not learning that much. They have the full chareidi look: beard, peyos, levish, etc. I would call them chareidi as a social term, but their religiosity is lacking.
The term chareidi means “trembling” (see Yeshaya 66:2) like having real fear of Hashem. Unfortunately, I think the term has become used to refer to anyone from a Chassidish or Yeshivish community, regardless of their scrupulousness in mitzvah observance.
Apuma and all others the word “zionist״ is being misinterpereted . Zionist means someone who yearns for Israel and believes that God gave the Jews Israel and believes in the Torah . On the other hand herzl and others were actually political zionists, because they don’t have a logical reason to keep Israel since they don’t believe in God, and therefore really the word political Zionist would be self contradictory . Leaving us with the only true definition of zionism , which is what all true Torah followers should be. Instead of anti zionists write anti-leftist .
Meaning Herzl lapid etc are anti leftists and that we are the true zionists.
Hashem gave us a matana-Eretz Yisroel-the first time in two thousand years! We need to be protected from the 70 million enemies who seek our destruction. Is there no greater mitzva than to protect Jews-no matter their religious level? In the IDF, most of the higher ranking officers are shomer Torah and mitzvos and respect a Jewish person’s religious level. Go to any army base and you will see religious men davening, laying tefillin, and being able to learn-as every base has a shul! If more and more bnei Torah joined the army, just think of how they will change things! Most chilonim are secular because they have not been taught about Judaism! Imagine the impact of a Shabbos table with zemiros and divrei Torah at an army base. Perhaps this entire episode is happening min Hashomayim so that Hashem can bring more Yidden to Torah and mitzvos and thereby bring the geula faster. We can not deny that the number of Torah observant Jews is miniscule. And all the kiruv work is not making enough of an impact. If every ben Torah soldier encourages just one chiloni to become shomer Torah and mitzvos, the entire Medinas Eretz Yisroel will be frum within a very short timespan. Every Jew has a Jewish spark that needs to be lit-and the media in Israel never lets it happen because they are so anti religion. But if bnei Torah go out there and make a kiddush Hashem, not only will we be saving Bnei Yisroel , but we will also extinguish the shidduch crisis! Before you tsk tsk this-just think about it. Everything comes from Hashem-absolutely everything. Perhaps this is a huge opportunity. And since it is happening, I think there is great merit in giving classes (like the mechina classes) to bnei Torah so that they can go into the IDF with a spiritual mission. I would love to see EVERY Jew greet Moshiach with their head held high, and proud of Torah and our special connection to Hashem.