ujm:
1. I have heard of various laws that give such power to the State to refuse welfare in such cases.
2. NS was an example I provided to you. In court the state can easily subpoena data for any school that would try to bring a case under the Yoder standard.
3. The Yeshiva’s try to compare their outcome to the black community in public school, just going with the standard that those arguing Yeshiva’s with no secular education are doing fine. Why not compare to non-Jewish private schools run by the diocese instead?
4. You say the SC case does not refer to welfare…. yet, below is a quote where the SC in its decision distinctly notes the rejection of welfare in determining the Amish’s self-sufficiency, which is key to the case.
“Whatever their idiosyncrasies as seen by the majority, this record strongly shows that the Amish community has been a highly successful social unit within our society, even if apart from the conventional ‘mainstream.’ Its members are productive and very law-abiding members of society; they reject public welfare in any of its usual modern forms. The Congress itself recognized their self-sufficiency by authorizing exemption of such groups as the Amish from the obligation to pay social security taxes”
5. You make some claims about poverty levels strictly being dependent on family size… Ok. Sounds good in your head but where you can pull actual data from shows your claims are not based in reality. New Square Median Household Income is $24,164, for the Bronx that number is $41,895 and for Brooklyn that number is $63,973.
But let’s look at per capita income… NS is $8,702, Bronx is $22,749 and Brooklyn is $36,295… But family size… Well NS average family size is 5.26 vs the Bronx being 2.71 and Brooklyn being 2.61 so average family income in NS is $45,773, the Bronx $61,650 and Brooklyn $94,730.
So when you look at the data the numbers for NS are not great… Kiryas Joel has per capita income of $9,119 with an average family size of 5.6 which gets average family income to $51,066 which is still less than the Bronx or Brooklyn.
So no, these Jewish families are not making more money. They are making less (or are you saying they are under-reporting income and committing welfare fraud? Shame on you for even suggesting that). But you say there are no statistics to prove any of this, well I would disagree.
In any case the burden will be on Yeshiva’s here to show they are putting out a self-sufficient community to meet the Yoder standard and not the other way around. But in case you think it is the other way around the publicly available data, no matter how you cut it strongly indicates the places with the least secular education are associated with very low income levels and high reliance on welfare.