Neo Orthodoxy

Reform was called neolog in Hungary. Do you mean an extreme fanatic orthodoxy where everyone wants to outdo the other. On this King Solomon says אל תצדק הרבה don’t be too religious and look down on others who are not as religious as you are. Maybe we can say on this כל המוסיף גורע one who adds, diminishes. They tell them, isn’t it enough what the Torah forbids but you need to add to it? By that you are diminishing the Torah by showing it is not complete and good enough.

>>>Neo chasidus is ncsy but with beards and peyos

Not really. NCSY does not focus on Chasidish seforim.Neo Chasidus does

Neo chasidus is not well defined movement even according to some of those who teach it . They focus on incongruent Chasidish seforim of a certain variety (they aren’t into the Meor V’Shemsh or the Noam Elimech) but the they also add Pachad Yitzchok from Rav Hutner and Rav Kook into the mix.

They do not follow Chasidish minhogim and do not value growing breads and peyos. (Some of the neo-chasidus adherents do grow beards and long peyon but that isn’t a value stressed by the leaders of the movement )

NCSY does not stress a mystical component. Neo Chasidus does.

Neo Orthodoxy (according to your definition) is a VERY bad thing. Did you know that up until maybe 60 years ago only a few groups kept Rabbeinu Tam? It’s a fact.

Anyway conventional wisdom would say that the way to protect Yiddishkeit is to be more strict but it’s quite the opposite. The middle of the road was the conventional Yiddishkeit for most Yidden .

Yabia > until maybe 60 years ago only a few groups kept Rabbeinu Tam?

According to my understanding, those who followed Rabbeinu Tam did it on both ends. But when we all moved together into big cities, it became unseemly that some people go to shul while others are still riding their horses and late Rabeinu Tam before shabbos was stopped.

Such a lot of am ha’aratzus on here.

What some called neo chasidus is dancing and singing at a kumzits with food and alcohol while learning a bit of kabalah and not really understanding it. Chasidus isn’t something you just become; it’s a level that most people don’t reach.

My concern is so many Frum feel Tikun Olam was hijacked by the Reform that they’ll go out of their way to avoid it. Tikun Olam is not a social justice crusade of the Reform. It’s the purpose of Yiddishkeit.
There’s an old historic cemetery (not many Frum buried there) here with constantly accumulating trash. Many Non-Frum groups take turns cleaning it up. Frum boys also take turns. Can you appreciate the visual when Non-Frum media posts pictures of Non-Frum volunteers and then there’s also a group of boys with Yarmulkes and Tzitzis also helping to clean? It says we’re all one people, we’re all in this together, we all need to take care of each other. Perhaps this explains why, as a major Frum author wrote, here the Non-Frum support the Frum at a much higher rate than anywhere else.

The Chasam Sofer Shut O’CH 80 questions why don’t we light late like the Rabbenu Tam. Could be that by a bris as in SA YD 266 Shach s’k 11, if the child is born within the 72 minutes we don’t make the bris on shabbos but push it away to the next day. In order to satisfy everyone, the Rabonon got together to light early erev shabbos and wait 72 minutes motzei shabbos or some 50 minures like Rav Moshe. The Geonim pasken that 13 1/2 minutes after shkia (3/4 of a mil, 18) starts bein hashmoshas after which is night. The Rabbenu Tam’s view is that there is another shkia and 72 minutes after is night so 58 1/2 minutes after the first shkia is ben hashmoshas. The Yereim, Rebbi Eliezer Mimetz’s view is that 13 1/2 minutes before shkiah is ben hashmoshas which we follow erev shabbos taking a mil 24 min and 3/4 is 18.

crazy horse,

“I’ll get into specifics, like people who say you have to wash on one slice”

That’s not a chumra, that’s an issue of the nature of pizza and how we eat it.

“or cholov stam doesn’t apply today”

I believe the OU now relies on the Pri Chodosh rather than R’ Moshe’s original heter, so there has been a change in application that may impact people’s choices. That said, many are keeping C”Y as a “chumra” (i.e., they eat C”Y but are not makpid on keilim) because there is increased availability of C”Y products.

“You can no longer work today and have to stay in Kollel forever.”

Tempest in a tea pot.

“The people who claim shaitels can no longer be worn, because old shaitels were fake looking, (plastic only started being widely used in the 60s).”

There’s plenty of sheitels being worn out there. Another tempest in a tea pot.

@crazy_horse
I also think there is a major need to pay attention to nuance.

There are multiple examples of differences between today’s orthodoxy and previous generations.
They can be categorized in (at least) the following way:

1) Instead of local shtetl rabbonim, we now have major intercommunal poskim
A shtetl rav has his kehilla, and could posken for them. It didn’t matter if other communities were more strict.
But today, a va’ad hakashrus (for example) needs to make food acceptable for a wide range of customers.
That might require combining certain chumros, in order that all kehillos are willing to use the hechsher.
This is also the crux of the issue regarding women’s pictures in religious publications.
Since a sizable part of Klal Yisrael believe that showing women’s pictures in magazines is a problem of tznius, the magazine leave such pictures out in order to market to those communities.
Thus even communities which don’t have an issue with women’s pictures, still end up with “censored” magazines.

2) People are more knowledgeable.
There were certain areas where halacha was unfortunately not being kept in Europe, even though there was no dispute about it.
The classic example of this is regarding women covering their hair.
There’s no heter for a married woman to not cover her hair.
Today, we have managed to raise generations of people who care about keeping these areas of halacha.

3) Relying on extenuating circumstances.
In europe, owing to many factors, often a minority opinion was accepted- not because poskim really held of it, but because the situation was “shas hadechak”.
Once we are no longer in such a “shas hadechak” often times those customs should be updated.
An example of this is chadash.
It’s not a question of being “frummer” than previous generations; it’s a question of acknowledging that the circumstances which justified relying on a minority opinion don’t exist anymore, and therefore the halacha should reflect that.
I once heard a shiur from Rav Hershel Schechter describing Modern Orthodoxy. He defined it as recognizing that circumstances have changed, and thus we need to apply the halacha accordingly.
Even though in Europe halacha alef applied, given today’s circumstances sif beis applies.

This is an area where we can have a machlokes haposkim whether a prior hanhaga was based solely on shas hadechak (etc) and thus should be changed today, or whether such a hanhaga actually was accepted as the psak and thus can be continued.
(Mishna Berurah often goes with the first approach, Aruch Hashulchan and Rav Moshe often go with the second.)

I think these three categories are perfectly understandable and not controversial.

4) Making new “Accepted guidelines” based on current situations
This would include new concepts such as expecting all bachurim to stay in yeshiva until at least 18, and preferably staying in Kollel as well, instead of having most frum kids start to apprentice by age 12.
This is a reaction to a variety of situations- the lack of yiras shomayim on the street and thus the need to be in yeshiva for longer; the fact that the average kid is anyway learning other subjects, and no longer is it acceptable to apprentice preteens; the amount of distractions in today’s world which makes learning harder, and thus requires more time.

This sort of discussion can be questionable, and different communities could have different stances. This might be what you are considering a “new” phenomenon which should be observed.

I think both sides have a point – yes, we can be more machmir in some cases where we were not earlier, and, still, there a lot of chumros accepted by some of the community with the end result being visible separation between that part of the community and other observant Jews. And, while some learned people here and elsewhere understand what drives the change, the vast majority of neo-O simply draw a line and see those that are not with them as beyond the pale.

In many cases, Sephardim are more sensitive to the ideal of having one community: whether they are trying to blend into neo-O by wearing black hats or into general O- by using eruv that does not correspond to Sephardi halakha (and chasidim will not use it). disclaimer: I heard a Sephardi Rav explaining this to his congregation, but I did not see him himself carrying 😉