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I recently read an article about an Odom Godoil, which I enjoyed.
However the story finished with him dying from Covid, while in fact he received a vaccine, fell ill within a couple of days, tested positive for Covid, was at home for a short while with mild symptons, and then his heart and vital organs stopped functioning. In fact he is one of the miniscule amount of people who anti – vaxxers point to as having died from the vaccine.
So why does the book say he died form Covid?He might have had another illness and COVID was just the finishing touch.
RebE, it was, sadly, for many elderly people. Many of them were in slowly decreasing condition, but could have lived that way for some years to come, and halakha considers a decrease of life akin to murder. I think people who come up with these denial theories are simply not able to confront the reality that their uncareful behavior contributed to those deaths.
…he says as he perpetuates the denial theory that nobody died from vaccines. I wonder if you can call the fear mongers murderers?
Syag, risks from vaccines are way smaller than from virus, especially for old people and I think you know that. Here we are talking about a 98-y.o. who had 1 vaccine and then actually got the virus and was niftar one week after having virus and actually being sick (see an article at the time asking for tehilim for covid symptoms, not vaccine complications). I get it that you disagree with my extreme moral judgment position, but here we are talking obvious facts.
#1 if it was moral I wouldn’t disagree.
#2 facts aren’t defined by “stuff that makes sense to me”. Nor can it be defined as “papers i read that i decided were valid”. And not even, “things that don’t conflict with stuff I have already decided were fact”
By now, one would think we had exhausted both the substantive and emotional sugyot derived from “hilchos vaccination”. However, in the immortal words of Abba Eban, Z’l, (which was originally framed back in 1973 in the context of Arab/Israeli relations but seem to apply equally well here) “there are always some who will never miss an opportunity to miss an opportunity”.
Gadol > we had exhausted both the substantive and emotional sugyot derived from “hilchos vaccination”.
I don’t think so. We have halochos that are being fine-tuned over centuries. Surely this pandemic raised a lot of halakhic and mussar questions that will eventually become part of our life. So far, we are too close to the event. Syag, unfortunately, does not help us to move ahead here – she voices her disagreement but does not explain what she thinks, so I am not able to respond to her concerns.
“she voices her disagreement but does not explain what she thinks, so I am not able to respond to her concerns.”
False. You often say you would love to respond but you never do.
I used to answer you very clearly and extensively and you would rewrite my comment and distort my question. Sometimes responding to a totally different point or none at all. You would accuse me of saying things I never said, deny things you said or just plain not respond. So why in the world should I bother.RR44, if I understand your posts right, you think that he was possibly niftar due to the vaccine. Publicly available information seem to suggest that he got covid and was sick for a week from that. Unless you have some definite information that the above is incorrect, then – my opinion – the rumors that you quote were generated by people who have some agenda. It does not mean at all that the Rav or people around him had the agenda.
AAQ – there were people who died from covid that they coincidently got very shortly after the vaccine with no exposure to covid. I know you will spout opinion that that can’t happen but that is your agenda.
Syag,
I think you should have written with no KNOWN exposure to Covid.
aw, you stole his line
Syag > – there were people who died from covid that they coincidently got very shortly after the vaccine with no exposure to covid.
I see what you mean now, thanks.
I do not discount that a vaccine can be a stress on the body and in some marginal cases make someone’s condition worse. As I suggested before, and CDC now says the same, people should have more than 2 months between vaccines.
Now what is the physical explanation of this hypothesis – of getting covid after the vaccine? It is not physically possible to get for the vaccine, this is not live vaccine, or do you question that? maybe vaccination procedure be unsafe, exposing a usually careful person to unvaccinated? if a room is not ventilated, then coming after a sick person may lead to exposure. Could it be a case of covid tester doinf or interpreting antibody test incorrectly – one test is sensitive to vaccine, another is not? doubtful, but possible, I guess.. other than that, I am at a loss what would be the explanation be other than a random coincidence. Maybe this (again, assuming there is statistical association which I am not aware of as of now): a person has weakness after vaccination, that causes him to get tested for covid, so gets diagnosed with a higher chance than otherwise,.
particular case sounds even more doubtful – the Rav was diagnosed 17 days after the first vaccine; documented heart problems were in days 2 to 5, 17 sound like a stretch; and for the first vaccine, age groups starting from 30 see no increase in myocarditis cases.
I am also not sure why those concerned with vaccinations are focused on the cases of covid after vaccination. I would think they should focus on cases when someone was vaccinated and did not have covid; unless they are suggesting that vaccine causes covid in some way.
my point was that when someone brings up points you don’t like you call it an agenda. but that your opinions are somehow exempted from that…
Syag, I considered the points, did my research (17 days, etc), and concluded that I don’t see how it can be connected. I am open to other possible explanations if you have them. Then, the next question who would send around rumors that seemingly have no basis under them, so that OP thinks that the book is wrong?
“I am open to other possible explanations if you have them. ”
not at all. you don’t give credence to things that “don’t work” for you, be they scientific, medical, religious or communal. When it contradicts what you think you call it an agenda or pretend you didn’t hear it. And then claim you are open to alternatives but haven’t heard any. No matter how strongly someone feels about something, or wants it to work, they need to be willing and able to turn on a dime when the facts point the other way.
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