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Eisav is the zaida of European Goyim. Expect them to act as Eisev.
Don’t assume that his actions are altruistic without self interest as by Yisro, vayichad, even when happy was not fully happy until ten generations.
מעשה אבות סימן לבנים
It means that every non jew has an inclination in his or her heart to hate Jews. It is a natural tendency which they can overcome if they choose. Hashem put it in their yetzer to hate us because our reality is one of galus. There’s no rhyme or reason. It’s simply a natural urge for them.
It does not mean that all non Jews hate Jews. It does not mean that non Jews always hate Jews at all times and it does not mean that every non Jews has a secret inner hatred of Jews. Rav Eliyahu Henkin zt”l refers to such talk as silly against the Torah and plainly untrue.
For those yidden whose daily lives involve working and interacting with non-Jews, it would be both dysfunctional and psychologically harmful to walk around with the belief that your colleagues are all closet-antisemites.
Be vigilant not to get cheated as Gedalya ben Achikam should have been.
It could be of jealousy as the Kli Yakar says in Parashas Devorim on penu lochem tzafana, to be hidden in galus and to incite them.
Virtually every Goy would push a button to immediately and permanently rid the world of Jewish beliefs/practices, if not of Jews themselves, if he absolutely knew he could get away with it with zero consequences.
The Yaaros Devash asks on the megilla, because their dasom, rules, are different destroy them personally? So he says that Haman asked on the dasam to get destroyed which the king agreed on but he changed the text referring to the Jews.
Is that something you must believe?
1. I don’t know why my post was deleted. Seriously, you moderators need to reevaluate what you consider “out of bounds”.
2. ujm, first of all: That is an idiotic statement, but not one I’m surprised you’d make. Secondly, it’s quite obvious from your opinions that you would do the same in reference to pushing a button to get rid of “goyim”, so you are no better than them.
” ujm, first of all: That is an idiotic statement, but not one I’m surprised you’d make”
Yehhudis” There is a button on the upper right hand corner of the homepage which you can push to immediately get rid of idiotic posters but the process involves having to toivel your computer and in some cases, its not “permanent’ and the poster ultimately reappears, sometimes under a new screen name.
Gadolha, does the impracticality of a belief in a given circumstance invalidate it? If something is true, then it is – whether or not you should focus on it, is a different story. It is true that my entire body is 99% empty space, because the space between particles of atoms is such. If I were to think about that all the time, I’d go nuts, but it doesn’t mean it’s not true.
kanoi, Where does rav henkin say that?
On the contrary, aside from what the seforim say on the matter, that halacha yeduah is just that – a halacha, a law as immutable as shabbos and kashrus….we see it בחוש. Before the Holocaust, we didn’t see every goy seething and wanting to kill jews, but when the gezerah was carried out, the inner hatred was awoken and all manner of gehinnom came out. Friendly neighbors turned jnto torturers. Close friends became informants. We should adopt the slogan “never again” to refer to this….never again should we fall into complacency, pretending that goyim don’t hate us. The bais halevi says that when Jews don’t make kiddush (separating ourselves) goyim make havdalah, by force.
My father lived in a a southern state for a long time; there was a very tiny community, one orthodox shul with barely a minyan. One day a friend of his announced his engagement to a non-jewish woman. She seemed like an archetype Southern woman; very refined, hospitable, and personable. The rabbi warned him that at some point, when there will be an argument, she’ll show her true colors…and כך היה. She got into a heated fight with him and eventually called him a kike. He got the message, left her and eventually became a baal teshuva.
” If I were to think about that all the time, I’d go nuts, but it doesn’t mean it’s not true…”
But if its NOT true, which I believe to be the case, than you have a special problem if you are are still fixated on it. Yes, there are goyim who are closet-antisemitim but I don’t think its the large percentage you make it out to be, much less “ALL”.
Of course not all goyim hate Jews. But all have the inclination to hate us, and most probably do on some small level. That doesn’t mean it has to be that way
“Eisav Sonei LeYaakov is as real today as ever. Only a fool world deny that.
Gadolha, i was addressing your stated point. Moving on to your disagreement with the premise of my position is disingenuous
There are definitely exceptions! We’ve had many ohevei yisroel throughout the generations; sugi hara, schindler, bomberg(the man who printed shas), many others, just those 2 come to mind
Some points:
The words in this Medrash are indeed about the guy Eisav. For some reason, we’re all aware that this has been taken as a generality.
We all know there is such a thing as חסידי אומות העולם, and there’s no reason to think that it is a handful in a century. And if there are חסידי there are likely some that are just below that as well.
On the other hand, western cultured people are formal and know how to behave, but this doesn’t inform you what they’ll say in private. Sometimes it can come out after a long time.
In essence, it isn’t far from what we find that it is called Har Sinai because משם ירדה שנאה לעולם. We find in מסכת ע”ז the opposite: that there is a secret admiration. We do see that the world is obsessed with us, one way or the other. And so, we aren’t looked at passively. Most people have opinions about the Jews. Either we are respected or repulsed. It is often both. (Just like a man hates his conscience…)
While Europe is understood to be a continuation of Rome, and by extension a part of Eisav, America might be different. Baruch Hashem, we never had anything close to what our grandparents went through. And in Europe today you still feel the hate.
In closing, the term doesn’t have to be a general rule for all time, or has been taken that way by many and that’s how we are aware the quote, and it isn’t a large leap from what we find elsewhere.
What makes you say that Bomberg was a Ohev Yisrael? I would imagine he was a Ohev Betza.
Avira, was Bomberg doing for reasons greater than it was good business?
I can’t source it; it’s what i always heard from my rebbeim…i can do a little digging on the matter and post if I find something
There’s no doubt that the printing press did a huge amount to preserve Seforim Hakedoshim.
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