[VIDEO IN EXTENDED ARTICLE]
It was another stormy session of the Shaked Committee which is responsible for the new chareidi draft law on Tuesday, 16 Kislev 5774.
MK (The Movement) Elazar Stern stated “I do not agree that everyone who says he learns Torah is exempt from military service. This is not the Torah I grew up with. Yes, we must continue learning Torah but there are a number of other things that demand our attention. If we were willing to say okay and permit 1,800 bochrim sit and learn to maintain the Torah in Am Yisrael it would be fine but the other side is unwilling. They feel that anyone who studies Torah is free. They have a different hashkafa… There are others things and there is something more important than the learning, life and death…We already compromised and gave in until age 21. We understand no less than you in this matter [speaking to Gafne]…
MK (Yahadut Hatorah) Rav Moshe Gafne responds. “I have a question. There is no reality in Am Yisrael in which a portion of the nation does not study Torah. There was never such a situation. We learn from the Navi that even under Jewish sovereignty in Eretz Yisrael half of the nation fought and half learned…It so happens that yesterday I was called to a meeting pertaining to Nachal Chareidi and it was stated that over recent years the number of chareidim entering combat units has been climbing steadily…Elazar Stern is sitting at my side and if I say something wrong he can correct me. Anyone who is not learning should go and serve. On this there is no argument and this is what has been taking place in recent years. If the government and the IDF had acted a decade ago the Tal Law would not have been disqualified…One would think one sits and learns has an easy life and does as he pleases. In actuality they have a difficult life, one of poverty and students in university have an easier life.
“This is political decision, nothing more. If the situation will be such that anyone sitting and studying Torah will be classified a criminal I will personally tell chareidim not to serve, even those that are serving already. What kind of situation is this? Israel has to be the only country in the world that one learning Torah fulltime is viewed to be a criminal?”
(YWN – Israel Desk, Jerusalem)
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7 Responses
“Israel has to be the only country in the world that one learning Torah fulltime is viewed to be a criminal?”
Of course this isn’t a fair statement. No one is being viewed a criminal for learning Torah. The criminal offense is not reporting to the draft (which _is_ a criminal offense in most other countries that Gane is referencing). In Israel someone would also be in big trouble if they dodged the draft to study physics or work or to stay at home and play tennis all day. Gafne’s rhetoric is misleading.
Does Yahadut Hatorah understand that in opposing the medinah they give up patronage, and in all likelihood will end up having to support a “one state solution” (and that one state will be called Palestine)? For 65 years the parties that make bu Yahadut Hatorah have struggled to be able to participate in Israeli society, and have done fairly well – and now the bill is coming due. If they join with the pure Hareidim (i.e. the Eidah Hareidis), they will be strong enough to resist but only if they are will to go against the zionists, and the zionists will not be amused.
After North Korea, China, and Cuba I would say that Israel is one of the worst countries in the world. Where else would a government try to undermine and uproot their heritage? Where else are political enemies “investigated” and often indicted just to be acquitted (maybe) after his will and energy is broken?
What? Since when does Elazar Stern (from the Bowel Movement) wear a kipa? YWN, did you add a kipa on that empty head?
to ATHOUGHT: Mr. Stern is a religious zionist. It is important to note that the religious zionists are behind the attack on Torah. Whether most will end up siding with the hareidim is in doubt – but without the initiative of the religious zionists, there wouldn’t be a crisis.
to M: Conscription has largely been abolished in almost all countries, and the handful that still have conscription find ways to avoid conscripting religious “fanatics” who object to serving. Saying that Jews are better treated in Isarel than they would be in North Korea isn’t saying much. In the case of non-zionists (who object to serving since the medinah is treff, rather than that they will be harassed because of their religion) international human rights law (which evolved in the last 60 years) clearly would consider their conscription to be illegal – and perhaps would similarly regard non-accomodation of religious practices. Remember, virtually all civilized countries have abolished conscription.
#4- Conscription isn’t abolished in Israel because its a tiny country surrounded by enemies. Have we forgotten about Iran, Egypt. Hamas, Hezbala, suicide bombers so quickly??
#1 Move to any other country and keep dreaming if you think your shtick will be tolerated. Would a Haredi man in Israel, serve in the army for just ONE day? ONE DAY! Wake up and smell the Coffee. More Jews are increasingly becoming indifferent to Haredim and will be deceasing their financial support out of sheer disgust.
Mr Kuperman – you make some interesting points. In particular you note that most Western countries have abolished the draft. I also agree with you that comparing what happens in Israel to what happens in North Korea is not particularly relevant.
In Israel today, the draft is still mandatory which is terribly unfortunate. What any parent living there would give that their children need not fight in the army. Do non-zionists believe that if there were no state, then they could live peacefully in Eretz Yisrael under Muslim rule? I guess that is possible even if very difficult to imagine. But let’s assume that that’s not the case, and that there would be no safe way to live bizman hazeh in artzeinu hakdoshah without having a state. Then even if we are not “zionist”, and even if we are “anti-zionist” (whatever that means), we are still very much dependent on the state for being able to live there. So if the state requires that its members serve in the army, of course it has the right. No one is forcing you to live in Israel, but if you do, and if you are thus safe to live a life of Torah and mitzvose in this holy place, you must follow its rules.
No, I don’t think that you would be allowed to live in Norway, Finland, Greece, Austria, Denmark (all places with mandatory drafts) and say that you don’t believe in the country and won’t serve. I don’t think you could even tell them, “I’m learning Torah! so I don’t need to serve in the army”.
In the end, does is stink that there is a draft? Absolutely. Would it be better if we lived in peace among our neighbors and didn’t need a standing army the size of Tzahal? Absolutely. But right now that’s not the situation. Not exempting people that don’t want to fight because they want to learn Torah is completely understandable. Let them fight with their brothers, protect their people, and when they finish their service, let them return to the batei midrashim to learn Torah, enjoying their part in their country.