NYC Chol HaMoed Trip Warning

There was considerable publicity when this went to affect, both by the city and then the negative reaction .

You have to be living under a stone not to even check if you need to be vaccinated. It has been widely publicized

In miami only vaccinated people are in buildings on Collins because the same logic goes in to being unvaccinated and staying away from high rises on Collins

RW > Boycott everything whether you are vaccinated or not.

RW, 81% of adults are vaccinated in NYC. So, I suspect most of them would prefer to boycott you rather than support remaining refusniks. Also, on old USENET, there used to be a rule that the one who first invokes Nazis in an argument – loses it.

RW, unvaccinated people could just do the rest of the people a favor and keep out of museums on chol hamoed.

For those who had Covid, whether by act of G-d or by negligence, it is not enough to rely on that alone to conclude that you are not in danger or not a danger to others. Those who measure high antibody count have a stronger leg to stand on, but I am not sure what is percentage of people who 1) belong to the group of unvaccinated, 2) had Covid, and 3) continue monitoring their antibody level. (1) and (2) are mostly uneducated either very rural or very urban, while (3) presumes some
level of education. This might cover a section of Jewish community, but probably not the others.

That said, FDA & CDC will probably get to the issue of antibodies of covid survivors after it resolves all the other urgent issues – boosters for Moderna, J&J, vaccines for children, etc. These people sound a little overworked for now …

For those who had Covid, whether by act of G-d or by negligence, it is not enough to rely on that alone to conclude that you are not in danger or not a danger to others.

The evidence shows that previous Covid infection offers more protection than vaccination. So unless you involve politics, there’s no reason to exclude previously infected people over vaccinated people.

If the vaccine was so effective we wouldn’t be up to 4 boosters by now. They even admitted that it isn’t as effective especially against variants.

I’m not sure why it’s so difficult to understand that something can be effective, but not last forever. Did you eat yesterday? Then why are you hungry today?

On the other hand if the natural antibodies weren’t enough to protect individuals, you would have seen a rise in cases to the likes of the beginning of the pandemic.

Yes, naturally immune, but also many vaccinated people.

Daas “Yes, naturally immune, but also many vaccinated people.”

-There was already a decline in cases way before the vaccine came out which is due to many who had already been infected. Also its easier to prove that the ones with antibodies havent gotten reinfected since enough time has passed since the beginning of the outbreak. The vaccine doesnt prove much as of yet since its still early and yet even vaccinated individuals have gotten infected and many severely. So that itself gives a 1 point advantage to natural antibodies which the world conveniently ignores.

It isnt difficult to understand that something can be effective but not last forever. But this MRNA is far from lasting forever. Four shots in less than a year? Can you name another vaccine which requires several shots a year to remain effective? At what number will you be satisfied with its effectiveness, 10 booster shots, 20?

And you think that this vaccine comes with no side effects short term/long term? You do understand that certain chemicals/toxins can build up in the body in which 1 dose may not hurt it as much but 4 or more may cause serious issues? Even the inventor of this specific MRNA which is being used by Pfizer and Moderna warned that it is wrong to aggressively force this upon everyone and that with every dose comes an added risk to the individual. This is the inventor of this vaccine Dr Robert Malone you can google him. But they already labeled him as a misinformation quack so go figure. If he is such a misinformer I wonder how they trust using his own MRNA technology?

DY > The evidence shows that previous Covid infection offers more protection than vaccination

This may be true, but not fully established yet. “Infection” may involve a little or a lot of exposure. Vaccines also do not produce same results – some people get more protected, some less, but the response to the vaccine seem to be more regular – after all, everyone gets the same carefully measured amount of exposure.

It may be that Feds are too conservative in not trying to guess better rules and use instead “lo plug” approach instead of measuring antibodies and giving personal guidelines to people. It may be that virus specialists are trying to make public policy without having training. I sae recently that CDC Dr Walensky mentions a need for social scientists to get involved. This is a little late and a little slow …

RW, why you repeating the same wild ideas without ever responding to what you are told here? A simple question – do you also have problems with J&J? Novavax? AZ? Sputnik? Sinopharm? None of these multiple, mostly independently developed, vaccine satisfy you?

Daas, “Um, no, only three for the most vulnerable.”

-Um, no, Israel is already up to the 4th booster and others are following suit so keep yourself updated with the times.

“The healthcare community denies Malone’s claim that he “invented” mRNA vaccines. He contributed to their development. And he’s still in the minority in his skepticism, and even he says some should take it.”

-Oh they deny it? Well what could we have expected. Also minority doesnt mean they are automatically wrong and should be dismissed, thats like saying Jews are minority in the world so who cares about their beliefs they must be wrong. Also he said it may be appropriate for some of course people at risk or elderly then it might be better than taking a chance with the virus. But thats not whats happening. And why censor everyone with a different opinion, you let people hear and decide you cant censor and only feed people the information you want them to hear and believe thats a big red flag and totally wrong.

We already know about the J&J issues that were so severe it had to be stopped even against their agenda. The reason i mention Pfizer and Moderna is due to the wide range popularity and issuance of the vaccine. The others surely have issues as well and you cannot claim to know the long term side effects of any of them unless you have the capability of traveling 10-15 years into the future, as cited on the CDC website (before the page was removed from existence), that vaccines take 10-15 years of trials to be released. Now you might say this isnt a traditional vaccine its an MRNA, well then, wouldnt that make it even more of a risk? An untested NEW type of technology injected into your body?

@alwaysask-“It is well documented that rates are 10x higher for unvaxed.”

-and are those unvaxxed, individuals who had previous infections or just unvaxxed and no previous infection? Its quite an important detail to conveniently keep out you know. Also are they reporting how many VAXXED individuals are hospitalized? Probably not as much. You do understand that if all those with antibodies would have gotten reinfected the hospitals would have been overwhelmed by now, so whats your argument for EVERY single individual to get the vaccines?

“None of these multiple, mostly independently developed, vaccine satisfy you? ”

-Even 1 untested vaccine is risky enough its just common sense, i was focusing on the bigger ones which require 3-4 as of now and are mainstream. How many pills were taken off the market YEARS later due to serious negative effects? So how is a vaccine that was made in less than a year any different? Again am I saying everyone should go out to get COVID certainly not! But if you already had COVID, and the antibodies are proving to both last longer than the vaccines and be naturally effective against all variants, then why push them to take another risk by injecting an unneeded and untested vaccine into their body! That all goes against science.For months they said vaccine is risky for children, suddenly in a week they come up with the fact that its safe for children and mandatory, flip flopping and contradicting themselves day to day but some amongst us are so ignorant that they will believe anything no matter what they see or hear for themselves. If you want to get the vaccine then go ahead but thats where it should end.

Oh and DaasYochid we are only at 3? Keyword ONLY right? What other vaccine then requires 2-3 (4 by now but whatever) doses in less than a year? Most vaccines are once in a lifetime and even the flu shot is annual. What Dr Malone said was plain common sense that since we do not know the long term effects it is risky and with every dose carries a greater risk. Its plain logic. And yes he is the inventor of the MRNA Vaccine.

Just one question, if the vaccines (3-4) have been so effective, why are cases going up in Israel which is the most vaccinated country in the world? Is it all due to the 10% unvaccinated? Why are they pushing more and more boosters is that the answer to everything, I mean if you see its not working after 2 or 3 shots, you just continue giving more and more shots? Surely something isnt right if there is still and uptick in cases. First they said wear a mask for 2 weeks and lockdown it will stop the virus, then it was the vaccines, but even with the vaccines we are in the same situation, so yes the fact that they keep pushing boosters IS proof that its not working, aside for many many vaccinated who got the virus and also some serious side effects due to the vaccine.

Its also interesting how they said several times that COVID will be here forever, but on the other hand they are fighting with masks vaccines and lockdowns to abolish it. Did they forget that they already said it will be here to stay as a virus? Why dont they also try to abolish the flu while they are at it. Israel reported zero cases of the flu last year so does that mean the flu is gone for good? And if it isnt then what makes anyone think that when we get to zero cases of COVID it will be gone for good?

Israel is preparing for a potential 4th dose if deemed necessary, they aren’t “up to the 4th”. And if they were, so what?

No, Malone didn’t invent it. He’s bitter that he isn’t getting the credit he thinks he deserves.

They never said it was risky for kids, they were waiting for the studies.

Yes, it’s impossible to know for sure the long term effects. We do know what the long term term effects of Covid are, though. Once dead, always dead.

Trying to prove they’re not working because of how many shots are required is downright silly.

Of course they are working. The people dying from Covid are overwhelmingly the unvaccinated.

but even with the vaccines we are in the same situation

No we are not. The vaccinated are getting severely ill and dying at a much lower rate.

I was talking about the antibody individuals. You agree they shoulnt be required to vaccinate but yet they are being forced to vaccinate that’s the whole issue here.
Also not every Covid case equals death so what you wrote is silly because it’s over 99% survival rate for most of the population. They even came out with a study that many hospitalized cases are actually very mild but the media will have you think that every covid case means they are dead and every hospitalized patient is on the way as well.

The whole controversy is in regards to the forced vaccinations including those who already have antibodies which they are ignoring and trying to minimize as irrelevant. Even those without previous infection should have a choice. Really the only ones who should think about vaccinating are those at risk or are afraid which is understandable. But now we live in a new reality where we cannot even sit at a restaurant without a vaccine. But how do the rules make any sense? You can ride the crowded subway in close proximity to others without a vaccine but you can’t sit at a restaurant? Obviously it’s not about science it’s about slowly taking away people’s liberties by getting them used to restrictions, they start at luxuries such as restaurant which aren’t essential for survival and then they slowly narrow it down.

And Israel obviously is in the same situation since they keep talking about lockdowns again and again. Also you keep saying covid death but what about the fact that most people survive? No one should die which is why the fact that they proceeded with gain of function research and turning this virus to infect humans and then leaking it out into the world, is one of the biggest evils in history. But if you can’t see the way they are capitalizing on this and spreading fear and propaganda to control the masses then you must be really out of touch. The fact that people can’t go to a gym, restaurant, museum etc. without showing a vaccine card is surreal and it seems the restrictions will only get worse as they already stated they will do. So I’m guessing subways and supermarkets are next. Or is it only at a restaurant where you can catch and spread covid…

Its one thing to use this sick method as an incentive to vaccinate, its another to use this as a gateway to peoples mindset of whats to come so that they accept it.

Also they havent proven that vaccinated “cannot” spread the virus and they also havent proven that antibody individuals “can” spread the virus. In fact they admitted that vaccinated can still spread so whats the logic here? And yes there are many vaccinated who got severely ill and hospitalized its just rarely reported and constantly being censored so naturally people will think its only the unvaccinated. Also isnt the point of a vaccine to protect the vaccinated individual? Since when did this whole “you have to protect the other” come to play? They never did this with any other virus/vaccine. I never heard of them telling everyone to take a flu shot to cover the other it was always about covering yourself.

The bottom line is that whether you choose to get the vaccine or not is one issue, the big issue here is that they are restricting people from living their lives and De Blasio clearly said, “we will make life as difficult as we can for the unvaccinated and more and more restrictions will come”. Who do they think they are? This is why everyone should unite and boycott these restrictions because once it hits your ability to buy food and basic survival needs it will be too late. And the vaccinated wont be safe either they will be restricted until they get whatever updated booster shot required.

the big issue here is that they are restricting people from living their lives

As the saying goes, “Your right to swing your arms ends just where the other man’s nose begins.”

And the vaccinated wont be safe either they will be restricted until they get whatever updated booster shot required.

If a booster is deemed necessary, that’s fine.

But how do the rules make any sense? You can ride the crowded subway in close proximity to others without a vaccine but you can’t sit at a restaurant?

You answered your own question two sentences later.

Daas-“So you’re okay with one out of a hundred people dying, and many others who survive with permanent damage?”

-No and are you ok with car accidents, driving under influence, scammers, people dying from the flu or any other virus? Again if you want to be “protected” then take the vaccine what is this new phenomenon of worrying about relying on the other for the vaccine efficacy? Why arent you as concerned for everyone to take a flu shot do you think there have been no deaths from the flu?

From the CDC “Fully vaccinated people with Delta variant breakthrough infections can spread the virus to others.”

I wrote” But how do the rules make any sense? You can ride the crowded subway in close proximity to others without a vaccine but you can’t sit at a restaurant? Obviously it’s not about science it’s about slowly taking away people’s liberties by getting them used to restrictions, they start at luxuries such as restaurant which aren’t essential for survival and then they slowly narrow it down.”

-and you said i answered my own question. So that means you agree that this isnt about science and just about taking away peoples liberties, ok got it.

If vaccinated still need to wear a mask and can still transmit the virus to others and also get infected themselves, please explain how the vaccine is effective.

No and are you ok with car accidents, driving under influence, scammers, people dying from the flu or any other virus?

I’m in favor of taking common sense precautions against all of the above.

“Others are simply denying that they need to do something.”

Everyone is doing something. Either welcoming their freedom being taken away or fighting. Everything is from Hashem. You are choosing to take it as meaning you have to welcome in a new world order. Others are taking it to mean they have to fight this because government/elitist control over humanity goes against Hashem since they are going outside of their realm of power. Aside for the fact that it’s unconstitutional and goes against everything America stands for. In the declaration of independence it says
“That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed,-That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government”

What is happening in the world is a revolution. You can choose to be on the controlled side that’s your choice. Just know that regardless of how the media tries it’s best to keep it quiet, there are millions against this world government tyranny and are not silent about it.

If vaccinated still need to wear a mask and can still transmit the virus to others and also get infected themselves, please explain how the vaccine is effective.

People who take the vaccine are less likely to get sick and die.

In my book, that means it’s effective.

Not perfect, effective.

Abba> There is no logic to this vaccine mandate.

I think you are trying to say “there is no perfect logic”. I think we all got used to order and predictability: 3-day delivery is so yesterday, emails arrive immediately, you sign up for school a year in advance. Go back 10 years and maybe to a different continent, and you’ll be standing in line to get basic necessities, attacked by bandits on a random day, find out about what happened in another country several months later.. This is all good, but just don’t feel so entitled..

That said, it is no question that government institutions are overwhelmed and often inconsistent. They are “imperfect men governing imperfect men”, as (perfectly) envisioned by Reb Madison.
So, instead of sniping, calmly take, and say thank you, for what is good and discard the klipot.

AAQ – nice soliloqy, although not relevant here. Anyone stupid enough to be complaining about restrictions purely because they don’t like to be told what to do our not even worthy of a response so I exclude them from this comment. You are waxing poetic about people not being perfect, only human, inconsistent etc. That is somewhat akin to saying that a school shooter is just a person in pain acting out in protest of a broken system. By hiding it behind those words, you make anyone who opposes it sound rash and impatient.

Based on past conversations, I sadly have to consider that you actually think that to be true but for everyone else participating, it isn’t about inconsistency, it is about lying, mistrust, lack of credibility and lack of science. For example – they claim to be following the science, and then come out with statements and rules that don’t. They claim that this epidemic is deadly, and then release tens of thousands of immigrants into the communities without testing some, and KNOWING others are COVID positive. They claim it is deadly for us to be in buildings unvaxxed and without precautions, but then allow homeless shelters to continue without those precautions. They say all government workers need to be vaxxed, except themselves, they say they follow the science and then require kids to forfeit healthy development even though the science DOES NOT support it. I used to beleive this pandemic was really deadly. I did whatever I could to avoid it. I also happen to be a rule follower by nature. BUT – when the people on the top who were WRITING and ENFORCING the rules, the ones closest to the facts, didn’t bother keeping the rules, that is when I learned it’s all trash.

I will do what I can to prevent the spread. I wear a mask, keep my kids home when they are sick, stay away from fragile people when I have been in crowds etc but the trust is out the window. And not because the government is HUMAN and IMPERFECT.

Do you even process any of this or is this more of your trolling? Like the part where you say you bring things up to hear other opinions. Except you don’t really seem to.

Soapbox is all yours. But don’t forget tonight is yuntiff.