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108 illegal immigrants released by Border Patrol in Texas test positive for coronavirus, officials say. Good job. This is much better than Trump right?
To play devils (Democrats) advocate
And to think that the governor of Texas would stop telling people to wear masks when he knows this to be the case!
He wants to reinfect his citizens!
Lakewhut – You forgot the main thing.
Biden opened up the US to e/o, while other Countries aren’t.
Why aren’t they?
Because the more people you let in – the more spreading of the Variants.
But you can’t criticize Biden, because he’s a DemonCrat!They don’t have a Vax against AIDS because of too many Variants.
I guess Biden wants Covid19 to be like AIDS!?!
But he’s NOT Senile!@kruise @lakewhut Did the rate of infections go down so they stopped wearing masks, or did they stop wearing masks and the rate of infections went down? Has the rate stayed down for a long period of time, or is it in tune with the spike/valley pattern we are seeing in areas where people are not careful about COVID-19? Since these shul goers stopped wearing masks has there been more or less COVID-19 cases than similar shuls that enforced mask wearing?
It’s only OK for Trump to host major super spreader events where nobody is masked or tested so that attendees end up dying from covid. A topsy turvy world.
The two shuls in my city who went maskless early on ( and were the recipients of death threats and the like from people like Yserbius and jackk – all sanctioned by Gd) BA”H had few to no serious covid cases. Had no more illness than other minyanim. Had no more serious a spread than other minyanim. Now that it is behind us in those shuls, the truth is what it is. The ones who wore masks all the time everywhere (and without any bullying or scoffing from the others by the way) not only got Covid as well (although admittedly almost a year later). but it even ran thru those shuls just the same as the others. Many of the mispallelim got it together, as did their families, in the same fashion as the unmasked shuls. I was very surprised but those are the facts on the ground. I don’t understand it, I assumed they would have few, random and isolated cases. But they didn’t.
And regarding Trumps fatal superspreaders, jackk, it takes more than one death to add an “s” to the word (I think even the family argued that he didn’t catch it there.) The doctors all announced the massive spread after the blm rallies (before the doctors were ORDERED not to ask patients where they caught it) but i guess you meant to say it’s only ok for the publicizing of trump to host super spreaders. Fixed that for you.
That’s a 6.3% test positive rate. Overall the test positive rate in Texas is 12.3% and the idiot Trumpie governor just ended all coronavirus restrictions. The Democrats are not the fools here.
Says you. When closed california has the same profile as open florida your words are proven to be useless.
“The doctors all announced the massive spread after the blm rallies ”
There was a big decline in cases, hospitalizations, and deaths in NYC after the BLM rallies. New cases dropped from 629 on 6/1 to 344 on 7/1; hospitalizations from 85 to 41; deaths from 47 to 15.
I am really tired of all these COVID lies from Trumpies.
I am also amazed at the chutpah of the Trumpies to continue to post lies that are so easily debunked. It took less than one minute to find those states online.
Oh Charlie, -“The Democrats are not the fools here.”
From above:
“Biden opened up the US to e/o, while other Countries aren’t.
Why aren’t they?
Because the more people you let in – the more spreading of the Variants.
They don’t have a Vax against AIDS because of too many Variants.
I guess Biden wants Covid19 to be like AIDS!?!
But he’s NOT Senile!”Syag,
I never gave anyone a death threat or the like – neither regarding masks or anything else.
I don’t know how mods let you say these things.
I will stop here from responding to anything else.>That’s a 6.3% test positive rate.<
Biden wants American citizens, like you, to quarantine upon arrival at the US.
Why should illegal immigrants have more rights than the taxpayers?>Overall the test positive rate in Texas is 12.3% and the idiot Trumpie governor just ended all coronavirus restrictions.<
He wants to be more like the idiot Trumpie Ron DeSantis, and less like the idiotic Never-Trumpies Andrew Cuomo and Gavin Newsom.
Results matter.>The Democrats are not the fools here.<
Of course not. It’s the people who follow them blindly who are.
Charlie: There was a big decline in cases, hospitalizations, and deaths in NYC after the BLM rallies.
Syag: Had no more serious a spread than other minyanim.you_all guys need to start asking shaylos from your local Rabbis/PhD….
Charlee – Indeed. There is a paper analyzing this. Mobility data explained what happened: rallies scared most other people from going to downtown and going out in general.
A similar effect might happened in Syag’s shul: vulnerable people were coming less to maskless minyanim, and more to masked ones. Also, if you are saying multiple (more than 4) people getting it at the same time, it means “masked” minyanim were not really taking full measures correctly, such as closed windows; ventilation that does not have filters and goes into their faces; prolonged davening; flimsy non-medical masks bouncing on the nose; exempting chazan; reading Torah close together, etc. We discussed this here at length early on, too bad you didn’t digest this info to them.
What’s too bad is your assumptions that you’re narrative works. First saying we should ask shailos. Duh. I wouldn’t consider living otherwise.
Next, your whole fantasy based description of what you need to be true cuz it works for you, and then actualky thinking it’s true. Well guess what? You are wrong about all of it. And there still wasn’t mass spreading or casualties in unmasked minyanim. Can’t that be okay with you as is, without a historical rewrite?Syag,
I am not against asking shailos. I was pointing areas where I think it is important to ask them.Next you complain that I talk about what works for me. If I posted something that you think could not work, I am simply inviting you and others to think how to apply my experience to better yours.
Re: minyanim. First, evidence that religious communities have large numbers is large. See Israeli numbers. Do people get sick in a minyan or a kiddush after that, or a yeshiva or a store nearby, is hard to say. There is a lot of general evidence that larger unprotected gatherings are more dangerous. Would you claim that covid does churches and not shuls?
The way you describe your community points that minyanim did propagate covid (you mention that it went thru multiple people in same shuls). you also mention that maskless got it earlier – this means that maskless had higher probability. It also points out that your masked minyanim were also not safe. It is, again, your fault. I posted recommendations here months ago how to make it safer. You should have advised those minyanim on safety measures. If you did, and they did not listen, then it is not your fault. My experience is 2 out of 3 who followed some of my recommendations. Even 3rd adopted some minimal ones.
If you were not sure, whether it was your business to go and tell them – you should have asked a shailah. You still can. Let us know what your posek says – are we arevim zeb’ze or not in this case?
I have no idea where you are coming from, certainly tangential to the topic but not really related.
Someone adked if the maskless shuls had more or less covid than the ones who followed the restrictions. I said that despite not wearing madks they suffered no differently than the others. For some reason you responded that the masked shul goers obviously did it wrong.
Well guess what, they didn’t.
So your experiences aren’t really relevant and the rest of your postings kind of don’t make any sense.Syag,
you still mostly make your thoughts to yourself when you say “don’t make any sense”. if you are trying to discuss something, you need to diverge some specifics.As to masked shuls – are you listening to yourself? if you are saying they were noit safe, it means they did something wrong.
You seem to conclude that no protective measures matter, we will all get sick anyway? My estimate would be that if your community is achieving herd immunity through direct exposure, it means you had about 3x people more dying and seriously ill than average (*). I really do not understand how you can be so calm about this. Maybe someone else can explain this to me.
(*) Presume 70% for herd immunity
CDC estimate Jan 2021 – 25% of population was infected.You’re doing it again. Here’s your statement:
“My estimate would be that if your community is achieving herd immunity through direct exposure, it means you had about 3x people more dying and seriously ill than average”
You estimate wrong. I give you information, you come back with what you’ve reconstructed or imagined instead.
“I really do not understand how you can be so calm about this.”
Because it didn’t happen
Always ask questions,
Did you see the survival rate for this disease
I suggest you look it up
For ALL age groups it’s above 90%for a coffee addict, the cup is always more than half full!
The disease is highly contagious, so 10% of all senior citizens is a lot of people … How many people are in Moetses and how many niftarim? this is the rate you should be worrying about.This is what Romans called “decimation” and it used to keep armies in compliance. The similarity to this barbarity is striking – under decimation, those who got the short stick were clubbed by the lucky ones.
To lakewhut: Are you sure you want the government rounding up people with Covid? Do you want to start in Boro Park, or Williamsburg? Or Texas? Or Mea Sharim?
Syag,
> You estimate wrong.
maybe we are not using the same definition of “community”. I mean broader community of 1000s people. Are you saying that among 50 people in your shul several got sick and all survived? Quite plausible. If you are in NY area, the death rate is 0.3%. That is, 3 people per thousand. The chance that everyone survives out of 50 people is 0.997^50 = 86%. If you are approaching herd immunity, your death rate will be 3x= 0.9%. Still, 50 people have 64% chance to have all survivals. Someone in another shul may not be so lucky. Overall, if your claim is correct, there are 6 more people dead out of every 1,000.So, thanks, I think we see where our different views come from. This virus is indeed confounding human intuition, as any “rate event” does. How often do we see people dying when crossing the street? most – not often. Why do many people still obey traffic laws – a combination of seeing cars coming, being trained over time, and police fines. Imagine that cars are invisible, cars come rarely, and there are no fines. Just, once in a while, someone who is crossing on a red light starts coughing within hours of crossing the lights and gets sick. Will it be easy to make people obey the traffic laws? Probably not. Some will attribute sickness to randomess, others to their lack of tzniyut, others will say – it is just 1 in 1,000, not a big deal.
“I mean broader community of 1000s people. Are you saying that among 50 people in your shul several got sick and all survived? Quite plausible. ”
It is very hard to have a conversation with you when you take what i say and reconfigure it to whatever you think it could/should/might mean. And then just take it from there as if it’s a given truth. Do you try to accept what I’m saying or does it go right to what you would like it to be? I keep trying but you keep taking my words and instead of letting them mean what i say, you decide on something else.
If you don’t realize/acknowledge/accept that you are doing this, than please exchange the word “hard” with “impossible”.
10 percent mortality would be 33 million dead Americans. The actual case fatality rate is more like 2 percent which would be over six million dead Americans. Trump and Abbott support that.
>Trump and Abbott support that.<
🙄 @charliehall, you and a certain “healthy” poster should start a conspiracy theory blog.
Syag, you are describing your feelings of frustration very vividly, but you are not saying what do you disagree with. In person, I would be able to follow your raised eyebrows and know exactly what you mean. It is not working online. Maybe you can either express your thoughts, or make a video while reading my post and attach to your post.
The reason I am interpreting your text is to find the hidden meaning. There are people dying and you are saying – no, not in our community, so, it does not matter. I am just trying to respectably square your words with reality. It would much simpler for me to ignore, believe me. so, please do not blame me for trying to understand your point of view.
Sorry, not buying it. I ran my posts and yours by a few different people to make sure i was clear.
Here’s a tip for you:
You say this:
I am just trying to respectably square your words with realityInstead of trying to square my words with reality, try listening instead. Your reality is subjective, you don’t stuff people’s words into what you perceive as reality. Just listen and hear them out.
“There are people dying and you are saying – no, not in our community,”
I am not bothering to continue this parallel attempt at a conversation, but i will, for the record, put in writing that i didn’t say that. (And im not even so sure that you think i did, but that’s my subjective thought.)
Jackk – im pretty sure you stopped responding to my posts weeks ago, which is fine, i just wanted to apologize. I did not mean death threats, i meant threats that we are causing deaths. I know that is not what i ended up writing. Sorry. (No response necessary)
Always ask questions,
Mortality rate are in reference to those that get sick, so it’s 10% (I was rounding down for the estimate it’s more like 95%) Charlie is correct that the survival rate is higher
coffee, great, we are on the same page re: general numbers. Now, what is your point – it is too insignificant to bother? Again, count number of Talmidei Chachamim who passed away from that. That communities will not take care of their most revered members is beyond understanding. I am especially aghast at the passing of R. Twersky Z’L. I presume he understood the situation with his medical background. I know he is wheelchair-bound, so at the mercy of people around him…
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