I didn’t want to go into detail during the heat of the debate, but I did want to share some thoughts.
I would like to add that I was not born into a Khareidi or Dati family (though I am now involved in a Yeshivish community). Currently, I do not identify as part of the Tsionist movement even though I did before I became Shomer Shabbos. I only identified with the word “Tsionist” back when I knew little Torah and had a developing interest in identifying as a Jew. I became less interested when I became aware that the Jewish religion is the crown of the Jewish Nation and essential in the preservation of nation. I guess identifying with a word like “Tsionist” is just as logically irrelevant as whether or not someone identifies with any other “-ist” or “-ism”.
There were Yidden making Aliyah in the Pre-British [colonial] era. The Rambam was, at on point there, and there was the khevra in Tsfas. The Khassidish and Yeshivish/Litvish sub-cultures of Ashkenazi Yidden have well-established communities in Eretz Yisrael. So do Sfardim! The user “Rational” did have a good point by saying this wasn’t battled out generations ago. If there was, then there would have already been commentary about it.
The Gemara in Kesubos actually claims that the 3 Oaths are really 6 Oaths. The gemara in Kesubos also claims that one who makes Aliyah should make the opposite of Aliyah.The gemara also claims the following:
ת”ר לעולם ידור אדם בא”י אפי’ בעיר שרובה עובדי כוכבים ואל ידור בחו”ל ואפילו בעיר שרובה ישראל שכל הדר בארץ ישראל דומה כמי שיש לו אלוה וכל הדר בחוצה לארץ דומה כמי שאין לו אלוה שנא’ (ויקרא כה, לח) לתת לכם את ארץ כנען להיות לכם לאלהים
The Rabbis taught: A man should always live in the Land of Israel, even in a city of which the majority are idolaters, and not live outside of the Land of Israel, even in a city where the majority is Jewish. For whoever lives in the Land of Israel, it is as if he has a God. And whoever lives outside of the Land of Israel, it is as if he has no God. For it is said (Leviticus 25:38): “to give you the land of Canaan, to be your God.” -Kesubos Daf Kuf-Yud Amud Beis.
How can one choose not to live in Israel when there are [ברוך השם] many Khareidi communities one can live in? BeUrBest claimed that it’s different which makes sense. It’s surely not like America; it’s surely not like any other part of the world. Toldos Aharon is based in Israel. Other good rebbes live in Israel too. I don’t understand why many Jews practically worship New York. Shouldn’t the trend of moving to Lakewood at least signify something?
Someone interested in learning an entire concept should learn not just one part of one sugya but the whole thing. It’s not like every Pre-Tsionist Rabbi was historically against Aliyah. However, some people have tried to manipulate and amplify a specific hashkafah in order to make it look like that.
I am also upset that “holier than thou” people have openly misused (if not abusted) the 3 Oaths and misued the words of the Satmar Rebbe and Brisker Rav. I’ve only heard the words “Satmar” and “Brisk” being in the same paragraph in reference to Tsionism. However, I was never told by [most of] those who oppose Tsionism that living in Israel is literally a bad thing to do. I’ve ironically met a Tsionist who doesn’t believe he is ready to make Aliyah.
During the Corona Pandemic, I realized that it can be hard to live anywhere, so why not live in the land that was meant for us? My interest in making aliyah is dominated by rukhnius. There are more people there interested in rukhnius. The Israeli people that are “Kharedi” take Yiddishkeit seriously. Marriage is a holy thing, and for my type, it is better for shiddukhim. The secondary motivation (which I did not learn untill after applying to make aliyah) is financial. Certain schools have subsidies. It’s not like America (which is too big and diverse to have Israel’s socioeconomic system). You don’t have to be a money-chasing animal that has to take up a lucrative career. I intended to make Aliyah in the true way – which implies making it without the intent of leaving. That is the true Aliyah.
P.S. I did call Tsionism a “physical” reason to imply that it is secular and should not be seen as Kadosh as the mitzvah of living in the desireable land that Our Father gave us. Politics is part of the physical world just like economics. It’s בעצם secular.
And as a late and irrelevant comment to “Rational”: tucking in tzitzit doesn’t make someone not Frum. It would specifically depend on the reasons why one tucks it in.