Eida Chareidis Gavaad HaGaon HaRav Yitzchok Tuvia Weiss Shlita speaks of the realities facing the chareidi tzibur in Eretz Yisrael today. “We are facing a difficult period, many trials and tribulations in Eretz HaKodesh. The wicked ones want to uproot limud torah and bnei yeshivos from the Torah HaKadosha by the harsh decrees including inducting them into the military. Everyone knows they do not need the bochrim for their army. They are not short on manpower. There is one motive only – to uproot Torah and religion from the Jewish People R”L with the gezeiros shmad. We must fight to the end without compromise” said the gavaad during seudas shlishis.
While he usually does not make reference to such matters during seudas shlishis it appears the severity of the situation compelled the gavaad to make an exception. The gavaad explained that he has childhood memories of his father wishing to move to Eretz Yisrael and when the Zionist Movement began he feared the consequences that may result. He feels today “The Zionists have removed their masks and we see who they are, fighting against lomdei torah”.
The gavaad continued, giving a chizuk to the bochrim. “Have no doubts that they are willing and capable of putting us behind bars and that is why we must stand firm and ready for such an eventuality. While sitting in jail is not easy matter, to be in the army is much worse, both from a gashmiyus and ruchniyus perspective. We must remember how in every galus we have been imprisoned due to gezeiros shmad by the goyim and this is the case in our time. If necessary, we will fill the jails boldly and with pride. I hope this will not be necessary and that the gezeiros will be canceled.”
It should be added that in one recent address the gavaad added “it is not for nothing Chazal inserted ולמלשינים into Shmona Esrei and now, we must ask three times daily כל אויביך מהרה יכרתו וכל הרשעה כרגע תאבד until the gezeiros are lifted”.
(YWN – Israel Desk, Jerusalem)
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25 Responses
The Eidah Hareidis is actually much better off than other frum groups since:
1. They have always opposed military service in zionist armies, unlike those who encouraged their baal ha-battim to serve in the army, so the Eidah Hareidis can assert conscientious objector status without looking ridiculous or being hypocritical
2. They haven’t been part of the zionist political system unlike those who have actively been part of running the medinah for the last 65 years. They dropped out of politics after their shliach (Dr. Jacob Israel de Haan) was murdered by the zionists – which gives them a lot of credibility in discussing national security matters (as in “it was your idea to have a war – we wanted to live in peace”)
3. Unlike the pro-zionist frum who have become “addicted” to government largess (patronage, etc.), they have turned down government money and are used to functioning without it.
How ironic, that most people blame others for GEZAROT .One must first look at their own COMMUNITY ,BEFORE LOOKING INTO OTHER COMMUNITY.May this new year bring ahavas Yesroial ,yerat Hashem and may the GEULA ARRIVE .
Jews have been persecuted by the Egyptians, the Babylonians, the Persians, the Greeks, the Romans, the Nazis, and outlived them all.
Mir velen zei, di TZionim, auch iberleben – We shall outlive them, the Zionist, too.
I applaud them for not taking money from the Israeli govt.
As far as other yeshivas who do take money, well I guess it’s pay time after all these years of getting govt funding. If they could manage a cohesive effort, they should all sign up for service and call the bluff because in truth there are not enough positions in the IDF for all chareidim. The govt would end up sending most of them back home.
Lastly, the Israeli govt is no longer shmadniks, they revolve around money. The draft is about getting out of funding yeshivas. My mizrachi cousins did sheirut leumi in hospitals similar to candy stripers, or feeder program at Maimonides that plenty of Bais Yaakov girls participate in. They aren’t going to put Chareidi girls in combat.
It’s a “parasite” situation with the yeshivas are getting money and don’t contribute back (income tax or serving) so it’s bound to collapse eventually.
#4 calling herself a rav’s daughter and talking lashon hara (on the day of the Chafetz Chaim’s yartzeit) on an entire community of upstanding Jews who contribute with their taxes like everyone else.
“The govt would end up sending most of them back home.”
And rav’s daughter, what about the others? Should Gedolei Yisrael sacrifice the souls of those they want to keep?
“1. …so the Eidah Hareidis can assert conscientious objector status without looking ridiculous or being hypocritical….”
You can’t claim to be a conscientious objector if you don’t want to fight because you think the army will not accommodate your religious needs. Conscientious objector means you believe that the fighting is wrong. During the Vietnam War, many sincerely believed that it was morally wrong for America and American troops to fight that war. And in many countries, even those exempted from active duty end up working in some non-violent civil service. Do you think that these Edah people or other Chareidim would be willing to at least spend a year performing sheirut le’umi? Would their daughters, who cannot claim the importance of their learning, do sherut le’umi? Are they all really conscientious objector?
Ravs Daughter, you are unequivocally incorrect. The chareidim contribute their time and effort in saving the chilonim by learning and doing mitzvos. This is worth a lot more than the money they receive, and the chilonim only have the money so that the frum should be supported. It’s only ‘parasite’ because that’s how their PR sells it. Now that the chilonim are divesting themselves of this zchus who will save them?
My chareidi nephews did NOT do sheirut Leumi and they can discuss any aspect of Shas. Their wives and sisters are all gainfully employed and pay taxes so that’s false PR too.
It was NEVER about money, always about shmad. It goes back to Europe and continues in EY. The Zionists brought over the sefardim and ripped out their religion and children in horrible ways. Was that about money too? They free the Arabs and jail the frum. Is that about money?
May HKBH have pity on us all and finally bring the geulah and let us be able to look back at this and laugh.
To #6/M: If the only claim of Jews to Eretz Yisrael is based on Torah, and since Zionism rejects Torah as the basis of their claim to Eretz Yisrael (and note that Israel is a secular socialist republic based on western legal principles), then what is the justification for the zionists having declared war on the Arabs and seizing control of the government from them and converting Eretz Yisrael from an Islamic entity (pre-1914) to its current status as a Hebrew-speaking state in which Arabs are second class citizens.
Zionists like to say that a nirdaf (the person being pursued) is allowed to kill the rodef (the pursuer). However if the zionists are the rodefim, there is no heter to kill Palestinians who are defending themselves. Thus if you kill a Palestinian, it is murder, and by halacha, you can’t commit murder to save your own life.
Then there is the issue of whether belief in and service of a state the claims to be more powerful than, and having surplanted, Ha-Shem as the sovereign of Eretz Yisrael constitutes Avodah Zarah, since one is also prohibited from serving an Avodah Zarah even if it costs you your life.
So it will be very easy for real Hareidim to assert they are conscientious objectors, under any standard. And the persecution, including forced conscription of conscientious objectors, is generally a violation of international human rights law. And the zionists will look very silly claiming to be a Jewish homeland when people who are obviously Jews are asking international human rights groups for protection from religious persecution.
Do you believe, that Germans who arranged to do non-combat service (driving trucks, medics, clerks) for the Wehrmacht or Gestapo were blameless? If you regard zionism as a rebellion against Ha-Shem, as many hareidim do, its a valid analogy.
The Israelis should exempt conscientious objectors, and only try to draft those frum persons who prefer a zionist state to a non-Jewish one – and leave the Eidah supporters alone.
For frum Israelis who have no problem seeking and accepting government funding, and who would not be happy to wake up as Palestinian Jews – none of this applies. However this thread is about the Eidah Hareidis, not Shas or Yahadut ha-Torah.
“You can’t claim to be a conscientious objector if you don’t want to fight because you think the army will not accommodate your religious needs.”
That isn’t the reason they are conscientious objectors. They are conscientious objectors because they believe the Israeli State is morally, ethically and religiously wrong and bankrupt. And that is the precise meaning of being a conscientious objector.
“Conscientious objector means you believe that the fighting is wrong. During the Vietnam War, many sincerely believed that it was morally wrong for America and American troops to fight that war.”
Which is exactly what they believe and always have believed and have expressed that exact believe since the 1920s through 1948 through today. They believe every fight the zionists engaged in is wrong. From the ’48 war and since.
Ravs Daughter…..You make some valid points, the Zionist bashers notwithstanding.I disagree with you about the money issue however.
Be that as it may,
They may a lot of Torah, the kollel heirarchy, but hakoras hatov is not learned, obviously.
They feel that only their Torah is saving EY and nobody else’s good deeds with work and draft service ( Torah im derech eretz) is. They know exactly what’s going on in Shamayim.
They hate the medinah, they’ve been infected and are infecting others, and that’s the bottom line
Good Shabbos and kol hakavod Ravs daughter.
וַיְדַבֵּר ה’ אֶל-מֹשֶׁה וְאֶל-אַהֲרֹן לֵאמֹר: הִבָּדְלוּ, מִתּוֹךְ הָעֵדָה הַזֹּאת
Akuperma… Why are you repeating the anti-Semitic lies??
“…what is the justification for the zionists having declared war on the Arabs and seizing control of the government from them and converting Eretz Yisrael from an Islamic entity (pre-1914) to its current status as a Hebrew-speaking state in which Arabs are second class citizens. ..”
Duh….Zionists have never declared war on them. League of Nations voted to partition, Arabs refused to accept and attacked. UN voted to to declare Israel a reality…. That’s most of the Umaos Haolam…. Arabs attacked again, and again.. Why do continue to spread a malicious canard that has been discredited by all sane reasonable people except for anti-Semites. Obviously, you’re busy reading Islamic radical sites and repeating this garbage here. Do you really think anybody, except for demented haters, believes you? Do you even believe this hallucination yourself?
B”H, more and more people are realizing that which our gedolim understood way back in Europe: the goal of Zionism is to change the Jewish people from being based on Hashem and His Torah to, CH”V, G-dless and Land-based.
Zionism is shmad; they need a state in order to shmad, not merely that shmad happens to be a necessary component of having a State.
The Zionists want to be goyim like all the other goyim so they decided they need a State and (non-Torah, of course) national identity just like all goyim have (The Spanish have Spain, et al.) Of course, the Zionists have been shown to be the ultimate “galut Jew”, futilely begging the nations for “recognition” and “legitimacy”.
A few years ago, a European ambassador infamously described the Zionist State as that “[expletive] little country”. The Zionists know they have failed in convincing the goyim; all they can do, then, is shmad the Jews as much as they can and continue to model the goyim as best (and worse) they can, in the hopeless hope that the goyim will finally accept them as one of the Nations, which will never happen.
Perhaps Rav’s daughter should have a talk with a Rav before posting, and perhaps “Lo soguru” should read the rest of that passuk “ki haMishpat Leilokim hu”, not to Zionist Jewish goyim who shmad their Jewish brethren.
May Hashem redeem us all BB”A.
Lo Soguru:
Even according to the UN’s Partition Plan, the Zionists took far more than what that plan allowed.
It would be better to learn the history without Zionist propaganda.
akuperma: Thank you for your erudite, well-explained, and accurate analysis. As always. You make our Jewish hearts and minds proud. I always look forward to reading your opinions, political analysis and historical perspective.
Lo Soguru: According to the zionist histories, the Arabs were quite willing to allow an autonomous Jewish community within an Islamic state. The zionists wanted Jews to have full civil rights, rather than a “dhimmi” (second class status, similar to Blacks in the US under Jim Crow, albeit with a communal government) status – and it was a problem that the zionists were secular socialists. The hareidim were content with the Arab terms and the zionists objected. In all fairness, the zionists probably would have been stuck but the British also weren’t thrilled with a large Arab state and did everything to encourage fighting between Jews and Arabs (same strategy they used in India and Ireland, called “divide and conquer”). However had the Jews agreed to being autonomous second class citizens, there would have been no war.
If you want to base Israel’s legitimacy on the actions of the British Empire, the League of Nations or the United Nations (rather than on Torah), you have two problems. How does basing your claim on a thief give you a valid title (especially compared to the Am ha-Shem, whose adherance to Torah and Mitsvos is their deed to Eretz Yisrael) and more importantly, what if the thief (in this case the UN, as the other two aren’t in business any more) votes to give the land to someone else (e.g. repeal the partition resolutions, and call a referendum based on the 1918 borders).
You should be content to let hareidim live in peace – content to do mitsvos and learn Torah. They aren’t hurting you (and real hareidim wouldn’t even accept your filthy money). The crisis is caused by your intolerance of the hareidim. Respect their neutrality in your war with the Arabs, and it will be better for you. Maybe in consideration of respecting their autonomy, Medinat Israel will escape the punishment it probably has coming for its many averios (let’s be honest, most of non-Hareidi Israel is way off the derekh, even though Torah says that Yidden who go off the derekh in Eretz Yisrael will be vomitted out).
Akuperma…. “…. According to the zionist histories, the Arabs were quite willing to allow an autonomous Jewish community within an Islamic state. The zionists wanted Jews to have full civil rights, rather than a “dhimmi” (second class status, similar to Blacks ..”
They weren’t quite willing, this is not true, because in any case thre weren’t Arab countries at that time. The British Mandate ruled over all that area. There weren’t many indigenious Arabs there, they came from all over to live there because they had a better economy with their Jewish neighbors. The radical Arabs caused all the trouble.
But instead of going back and forth, here’s the bottom line:
The Jewish people had a right under international law to create their state and they did.
Thank G-D the chareidim didn’t carry the day.
Chareidim are allowed to live in peace, it is they who wage war. They didn’t want the state so now they’re crying crocodile tears.
Until the chareidim come to their senses and realize that Hakodosh Boruch Hu created and wishes for Jews to return to Zion, there will be problems. Despite all your revisionist claims, despite all Arab wars, despite all the anti-Semitic and Semitic hatred, EY lives in a miracle of miracles. Hodu Lashem Ki Tov Ki Leolam Chasdo.
He’s a pokeach ivrim…. but now you have to focus those eyes.
Hakatan…. ” A few years ago, a European ambassador infamously described the Zionist State as that “[expletive] little country”.
He was talking about you and other Jews too.He would say the same to your face if there no Israel. An anti-Semite spits in your face and you say , he means the other Jew, not me.You are, shamefully, in one hand with Arab murderers, you a self -hating Jew and worse of all a hater of Israel.
You lost, hakatan, stop foaming at the mouth . You can reject the state and spread slanders about it, but it is here to stay. Calm down and sleep well.
People are just asking that people do some army service, community service, go to work and learn math. This is shmad????? Total disrespect to people who died in the holocaust. No historical or halachic precedence for this type of behavior. The Chofetz Chaim wrote a sefer called Machane Yirrael which included halachos that Jews in the Army could live by. Was he guilty of shmad?
#17…. Read Eym Habonim Semaichu for the pshat on “Vomiting out.”
Suffice it to say, that the Chumash says about the first entry into EY, ” Lo betzidkoschu” I take you into the land… In Novi , about the final geula, it says the exact same thing. H”BH is a rachaman, unlike you. The time for redemption has come, unfortunately again not because we’re worthy but because it’s gezeiras Hashem.
When Moshiach will come everybody will be completely frum.
Until then , set an example of what frum and chareidi means. Attract by practice not by cursing and waging a holy war..
And, once again your history is not correct, it was a complex series of events that led to the state. At the very least you’re pulling little details out of context. It doesn’t matter anymore…. It’s here.
Mr. Hakatan… You wrote this :
a European ambassador infamously described the Zionist State as that “[expletive] little country .
Are so full of hate that you realize that he meant you too??? You think he meant Israel only? You don’t have even a scintilla of pride that not only aren’t you personally insulted but you have no shame in posting this here. What you and your ilk don’t want to see is that anti-Zionism is the new catchphrase for anti-Semitism.
You’re a disgrace, Zionist are JEWS… Haposel bemumo posel. Check your yichus.
mr Apukerma.. We religious Zionists have no problem with Israel’s legitimacy from ANY kind of point of view. It is YOU who has the problem.
And NO, Jews did the absolute right thing in not wanting to be second class citizens. Why should they?
Here’s an idea Akuperma. Go sell yourself as slave to an Arab family .
Would have been the proper time to speak about the ridiculous violence and terror at the Beis Shemesh construction sites and ask for mechila from both sides.
Today’s Zionists are alot like Biryonim/Zealots of the time of churban Bais Sheini. They don’t realize that Hashem is the one who gives arabs constant desire to agitate us so we might get the message and do teshuva.
Lo Soguru: Even according to the UN’s Partition Plan, the Zionists took far more than what that plan allowed.
CHECK YOUR MAPS and you will see that the Rabbonim of the time were so unhappy and distressed regarding the 1948 partition plan due to the lack of land allotted to the Jews. Those who advocate a Palestinean State with Jews living there,,,, please listen carefully to words spoken by PA/HAMAS/HIZBULLAH etc. You are dreaming a dream, “I have a dream”!!!!