17 Responses

1. 1. They would be more effective if there were more united – the list above was one party, and I didn’t see any Sefardim, anyuone from non-establishment Hasidic groups such as Chabad and Breslov (both of which are significant in Eretz Yisrael), and no one from the Eidot hareidiot.

   2. Since when do the hilonim have a duty to subsidize learning Torah. Conscripting people, discriminating in employment, restricting economic activities, imposing costs upon and interfering with hinuch – these we can object to. But goyim and Jews who think they are goyim have no duty to give money to frum people.

2. “The rabbonim explain that not only should funding for yeshivos not be cut, but it should be increased..”

   Perhaps those who advise these rabbonim failed to tell them that the government’s revenues are shrinking and taxes which are already too high cannot be raised any further without choking the economy. Instead of demanding more tax dollars for their mosdos, these rabbonim might consider how to increase employment and entrepreneurship among the Chareidi community so they could help grow the economy of EY, which in turn, would make more funds available for distribution to their institutions.

3. #2- The things you say about economics are not unique to the frum community, but apply to all of Israel, and to a great many places (and not just countries such as Greece and India which are going broke providing services they can’t afford – the USA is also over its head doing the same thing). Perhaps we should argue that instead of imitating the goyim, Israelis (all of them, not just the frum) should pull in their belts and live within their means (even if it means having to live like people did 50 years ago).

4. With war over your head , if you don’t understand the value of Torah and Tefilo , are you really waiting for Hashem to wake you up. If you are from a jewish Yichus and your alive you must jump out of your position and beg mechila from Hashem for your fight against Hashem, otherwise check your Yichus it might not be Jewish.

5. The 2 commentators are missing significant issues.
   1. There is no reason why my tax dollars should go towards funding many, many things the government wastes its money on, however we are one nation – we all pay taxes (direct & indirect- like VAT) & we all should be entitled to being funded by the government – each one for his own education system.
   2. It is written in the sefarim hakedoshim, that when finances are tough, you should give more tzedaka. You may ask that by doing so, this would worsen the situation ? The answer is that Hashem Yitbarach provides your parnasa and that when you give more tzedaka, Hashem Yitbarach will accordingly take note. Accordingly, the government should be giving more to Torah institutions at this stage, in order to help the economy. Giving less, is not going to help the economy. But this point is a lesson for every individual. My personal finances are being drastically cut, so I have started giving even more tzedaka.

6. The most powerful prayer is Tefila le’ani, a prayer of the poor. Bibi/Lapid/Bennett beware! Starting up with Gedolei Yisrael is playing with fire, esp by cutting the funds of Torah. Remember what happened to Sharon a strong man until he made the biggest mistake in his life, a punishment for which he’s still suffering.

   #2 Same mantra over and over again. By now you and everyone else know quite well the prerequisite for increasing employment and that Gedolei Yisrael are not ready to sacrifice the souls of chassidim/talmidim for that.

7. #5 Right on and the government in Israel has proven it. The more they cut for Torah and children, the more the US cuts their budget towards Israel!

8. #6…yup, same mantra over and over again. You don’t demand others do what you are unwilling to do for yourself. If a segment of the chareidi tzibur refuses to make any compromise on national service (military or alternative public service)than they will be at the bottom of the priority list for scarce public sector funds. That is what the majority of the population of EY believes based on recent opinon polls and is also the most equitable outcome. Once they start making some contribution to the economy of EY, they can start “demanding” increased funding for their mosdos.

9. It seems like it was a kinus of Chassidish Rebbes to discuss the harsh issues, may the new year bring hatzlacha and shalom to am yisroel.

   “But goyim and Jews who think they are goyim have no duty to give money to frum people” — NOT UNDERSTOOD!!!!
   The majority of Israelis and Jews (excluding the self-haters) are the largest donors to Jewish hospitals, terror victims, disabled IDF soldiers, orphanages, Jewish universities, AISH HATORAH, Chesed & Medical Organizations yet they may not be giving foremost to YESHIVOS.

10. I understand the Rabbonim, Learning, is their business.
    A Flower store once told me that he feels that buying flowers is more important than buying clothing and kitchen appliances.

11. 1. The Israeli tzibbur is pained and concerned over the ongoing efforts of Moetzas Gedolei Yisrael of Agudas Yisrael against the draft of bnei torah into the IDF.

    2. The Israeli tzibbur calls upon the members of the Moetzas Gedolei Yisrael of Agudas Yisrael, many of whom live lives of considerable luxury, to live according to the dictate of chaza”l ‘pat bamelach tochal umayim bimsorah tishteh veal haaretz tishan’ and to contribute their wealth to their poverty-stricken followers before demanding further funds from the Israeli tzibbur.

12. #11- Can you give some details about gedolim who live lives of luxury. The ones I met all seem burgeois at best.

13. All you commentators who are using typical economic logic to hurl your accusations and filth against Gedolei Yisroel, simply fail to realize that Eretz Yisroel (and Klall Yisroel) does NOT run and operate under any typical economic model.

    “V’Haya Im Shamoah Tishma… V’Nasati M’Tar Artzachem..”
    Those who are learning and being Osek in Mitzvos and Limud Hatorah, THEY are the ones benefiting and sustaining the economy, and THEY are the ones supporting all those of you who demand they stop. Not the way you write that you and the government are supporting them.

    Why do you persist with this Kfira? You are basically cutting off your noses, spite your faces. And it’s getting ugly to hear you.

    Force the Lomdei Torah into Tzahal, decrease public funding to Yeshivos in Eretz Yisroel – and the direct result will be the Israeli economy crashing.

    That is what Hashem and His Torah say. And so it will be.

    And your opportunity to share in the Zechussim of the Lomdei Torah will vanish – woe unto you as you approach Yom Hadin.

14. Eliezer**** …”That is what Hashem and His Torah say. And so it will be…”
    And where does it say that?
    I, however, can show that the great Talmudists worked. These were rabbis who could revive the dead, as you ought to know.
    The Torah says to do mitzvot, learn and work. The Torah says that a male from 20 and on goes to the army. Moshe Rabbeinu and Dovid Hamelech both led wars.
    People can be “osek in Mitzvos” while they’re in business or punching a clock for someone else.
    Nobody is trying to stop earnest young men who can be supported by their family to sit and learn.
    Decreased funding has to do with the economy, and it cuts across the whole gamut of services.
    This is not kfirah, this is Torah.
    Forcing “lomdei Torah” into Tzahal is based on Lo Taamod Al Dam Reiecho. Or haven’t you heard?

15. Lettuce,
    I’ve heard and read the entire gamut of perversions of Toraseinu HaKedosha that you and your ilk would spew and spread like a virulat virus to get your point across.

    Been there, done that. Heard it all. It’s garbage.

    “Decreased funding has to do with economy,” is a most naive statement, and it only proves that you continue to monitor the situation through “goyisha” eyes, instead of Ruchniusdika eyes.

    There would be no need to decrease funding, and any other of the gamut of services in EY, if the Chilonim and your ilk would just realize that it’s the Lomdei Torah that are supporting YOU, not the other way around.

    Moshe Rabbeinu led the ultimate war against Amalek, by holding his hands above his head and Davened to Hashem.

    Actually, I believe you are guilty of Lo Sa’amod, because by your directly lessening the amount of Torah learned in EY, you have put many soldiers lives in danger.

16. eliezer*** First, Moshe Rabbeinu PERSONALLY killed Sichon and Og.
    Second,for your ruchnios eyes only:
    Anybody who follows the Torah, does mitzvos, etc… is supporting the entire Jewish people. You DON’T know the zechutim of individuals, you don’t know who supports whom and it’s the height of arrogance for you to suggest that only lomdei Torah support us.
    As you say, I’ve heard your & your ILK’s arguments before too. Been there, done that. It’s garbage….

17. Lettuce,
    I’m more like you than you would think. I punch a clock every day, and work 10 hours or more a day. Yet I firmly believe that my parnossah comes not from my work, but from the time I spend in the Bais Medrash, and from the Zechusim of the Lomdei Torah in Klall Yisroel.
    I DO know who supports whom… The Zechus Hatorah supports all of of B’Nei Yisroel – those that are learning, those that are working (like me), and even those that are against them.
    It is also the Zchus of Limud Hatorah that protects our Tzahal and any Jewish soldiers around the globe – not the tanks or the guns. Those are just props in Hashem’s war to keep it looking “Tevadik.”

    It is not arrogance that makes me say that my own efforts do not support me and my family – quite the contrary – it is humility in my belief that my Hishtadlus is only successful because of the Lomdei Torah, and the Tzedaka that I give to support them.
    (The Milchama of Moshe Rebbeinu against Sichon and Og is explained in the Meforshim as being one of Ruchnius, not physical. Just as the battle between Yaakov and the Sar of Eisav was also a battle of Ruchnius. And even though there was a physical outcome, anyone who looks at these confrontations as “physical war” misses the core issues of these Milchamos.)