Moisha’s Supermarket – A Request

What time can I see you in the meat section?

<Moisha’s should adopt the system used by Aldi in the USA and many markets in Europe. All shopping carts are chained and you insert a quarter to release the cart. People return the carts to the lane and retrieve the coin.
I was in France this summer and the standard was a Euro coin. People in NY might not bother returning the cart for 25 cents, but probably would for a dollar

CT Lawyer has a good idea but even easier and more effective are the shopping carts now the norm in most big cities in Japan and China which use a chip that triggers a locking system on the cart wheels if someone tries to wheel them through the exit doors. I suspect the system pays for itself within a year or so by substantially reducing cart losses or damage.

GH, I thought that was pretty standard in America. At least it is in the non NYC area city I am from. We’ve had that for a while.

@Gadolhadorh

The shopping carts with chips that lock the wheels when trying to leave the store are a terrible idea. One needs the shopping cart loaded with a week’s groceries for a large family to get the bags to the car.
Here in the suburbs some stores have set the carts to lock at the edges pf the parking lots and it works. But stores such as Moisha’s depend on on street parking and shoppers need to be able to wheel the purchases all the way to the car.

Other models that work successfully in non-urban markets include:
A system where your purchase is placed in a bin on a conveyor in the front of the store, you drive up, hand the box boy your ticket and they load the car.
A system used by the Market Basket Chain in Massachusetts and New Hampshire: they hire mentally challenged young adults who wheel the carriage out to the car for every customer, help unload and then return the carriage to the store.
These cost money and do raise prices slightly.

So…I happen to work in the Supermarket industry and I can tell you that all the suggestions, while theoretically good, would not work for the location in question. As a couple people pointed out, locking the wheels at the corner would prevent people from being able to take their purchases to the car – which may be parked a block away. It works well “out of town” because there is lots of room for a parking lot but not in an urban area. Besides, the cost of implementing that type of system would be immense. The way they work is with a strong magnet that has to be placed at the borders that activates the wheel lock, meaning that the sidewalk would need to be ripped out and the magnets installed all around the store. Furthermore, those types of wagons are significantly more expensive and the store would need to replace all the wagons they currently have, which would be very expensive.
The other idea of using the quarter method….again, the cost of replacing all the wagons would be expensive, but more importantly, the backlash from the customers would be overwhelming. People feel entitled to convenience. Either they would not bother for the quarter or they would complain how the store “DARES” to charge for a necessity. I have had customers in my store request to take the wagon home with them, promising to return it. When I asked that they leave their credit card or driver’s licence as a security deposit so that I can be assured they would return the wagon I received a horrified look. “Why should I leave my card? Don’t you trust me?” The simple answer is no. Hundreds, if not thousands of wagons are lost by grocery stores in Brooklyn each year (not an exaggeration) and what is the harm in leaving a card if you plan to return? I believe that the coin operated carts would work the same way – except they cost a lot more to replace when lost.
Yes, the store has employees that go around to collect the wagons but many are left more than a block away. These unattended wagons also get taken by random people and are never recovered. I have heard of good Samaritans calling in about a wagon they found….a couple of miles away from the store, or used by a building Super to cart his tools around, or by a construction crew using them to move their trash…etc. Many are never recovered or are found broken beyond repair.
Finally, while I appreciate the brainstorming about how the store can spend more money (without increasing the price chas veshalom), I wonder what happened to the concept of personal responsibility? When did people decide that something they borrowed from another Jew (that is what wagons are) does not have to be returned to its owner? When did they decide that their own convenience is more important? I guarantee you that if there is a price mistake for $.10, they come running back for their money, why then do they not care about someone else’s property?
It is a very sad state of affairs that adullts, Frum Jews, do not have this basic concept.

@working on it
I was in the retail business for many decades.
Your theory about the carts that cost a quarter to use as being a great expense because current carts have to be replaced is not correct. The locking device that takes the quarter and attaches to the cart ahead is an add on for standard carts.
Way back in 1980, my father had them added to our carts at our Danbury, CT store as so many carts were disappearing. At that time our standard metal carts cost approx $165 each and the locking mechanism was $28 installed. It was well worth it. When we sold the store at the end of 1987, only 2 of 150 carts had gone missing.

Why doesn’t Moisha simply provide an online purchase and delivery service option to its customers so they don’t have to drive and park several blocks away and then “steal” the shopping carts when they have to shlepp their groceries back to the car etc. Its much more efficient and convenient to have a single truck drop stuff off to people’s homes meaning less traffic, less double parking, less noise and pollution (and more time to help the kids with their homework). As the technology rapidly evolves, even smaller markets will find it cost-effective to offer this option to their customers.

Maybe moisha’s should sell bubby carts, have a drive-by pickup or offer a delivery service. No one should be allowed to bring the carts more than halfway around the block or they will never be returned, and the magnetic locking wheels are worth the expense. If moisha’s sells bubby carts or offers a place where people can drive up to load up their cars, then the system should work.

It’s worth it to install the magnets because even if the customers try to be perfect about returning their carts, without the magnets, there is still a risk of them being stolen.

Gadol, Moisha’s, like most Brooklyn kosher stores, does offer delivery and many people use it. But for various reasons, many people can’t or won’t. For example, I work in the neighborhood but live outside their delivery area. Others find it difficult to be home when the delivery is expected.

Why doesn’t Moshes this
Why doesn’t moshes that

Moshes firstly has a fifty car valet parking lot
Secondly
Why don’t shoppers just return the carts that they take
It’s too hard?
Ask the store to send a worker to walk you to your car and pay an extra two bucks tip.
Stop making excuses for people’s stealing

Can’t return an air conditioner to Walmart (even though they technically allow it.)
Can’t have Someone else write your essay (even though the school is aware of it)
But somehow it’s OK to steal shopping wagons from a store that has multiple signs telling you it’s not OK and it’s the stores problem to figure it out?????? “?”

GH: 1. At one time Moishas online/fAX service did not honor the sales prices as was clearly stated on their website (i am not sure if that is still in effect).
2. I and many others prefer to see meat, chicken, and fruits and vegetables before we buy them.

“Some of their clientele don’t have internet and I wouldn’t be surprised that this is the bulk of people that take the carriages”… “What is that supposed to mean”

I think he is saying that there is a group of yidden who shop at Moishas’ who follow the hashkafah of the Tsemishte Rebbe which holds that it is assur to use the internet but OK to steal shopping carts.

Locks,horns, wheels, sirens, kazoos, magnets,deposits, … It’s not mentchlach, it could be geneivah, it’s a chillul Hashem if non-Jews observe this . Customers, especially frum Jews aren’t permitted to do it…. Teach this and similar situations first in yeshivas before gemara pilpulim.. Teach it to the girls as well.I’ll know we arrived when some bar mitzvah boy gives a speech on how religious Jews should conduct themselves on the streets instead of deep pilpulim that tranquilize guests.

KY
Wjen you don’t follow, observe or learn from the Torah , you have denigrated it. We shallow guests have long forgotten the boy’s speech but will for a long time will remember that bnei and bnos Torah are shaming the beauty of the Torah. Get your priorities in order.

Classic
By your own admission just now, you will focus on negative ignore positive and denigrate others based on that
Wonderful.
Some of us choose to focus on the beauty of the Torah and realize that humans are fallible and therefore try to forget or look away from others accidental failings , instead of looking down an entire segment of klal yisroel who choose to make Torah the primary ideal and goal in their life.

ZionGate, well said, דרך ארץ קדמה לתורה

People who steal, can steal from Moshe’s at any time.
Moshe’s trust you ; that you keep kosher and are a frum yid and you are not a ganiv.
It is probably a business decision not to add elaborate security items to the cart.
Why not install a GPS locator signal to the carts? Also too expensive?