39 Responses

1. This is news because???

2. Strange story.
   Does the Yeshiva rule against phones or not?
   If there is such a rule what is the Chiddush?
   If there isnt then why throw them out?

3. Why oh why is this here? During the nine days? How low we have fallen.

4. the great-grandson of RAK uses whatsapp to set up meetings with RAK. whatsapp runs on a smartphone

5. This story and its details is very unclear.
   It does however, have similarities to the story involving the bachurim from a Yeshiva in Lakewood that were thrown out for attending a livaya in Brooklyn after they were told not to go. Every Yeshiva has a right to set its own rules. If you can’t or don’t follow the rules, you should get tossed out. No is forcing anyone to attend any particular Yeshiva. There are 100’s of choices. If you can’t play by the rules, get lost. Go to a place that does allow what you particularly want. It’s the same thing with holding down a job. If you can’t follow the companies rules and policies, you’re gone.

6. Obviously; this was a rule in the Yeshiva and the consequences were known. There many such yeshivos in the USA with the same policy.

7. Reminds me of the legend of when the bochurim in Ponevez once ‘protested’ because of the food situation or something and they all packed into the ezras noshim. Their ‘protest’ seemed to be going well until Harav Hagaon Rav Chatzkel Levenstein ztz’l walked into the ezras noshim and said “I’m not mekaneh the bochur who remains in here in ten seconds from now”
   So the legend goes- the ezras noshim was empty and the ‘protest’ dispersed in around six seconds…..

   Rav Chaim Berman shlit’a once told me “Rav Chatzkel ztz’l had ruach hakodesh”…..

8. This brief post contains very little info, so we can’t really judge the specifics. But the issue here shines a distinction between the goals of a yeshiva and the compliance with rules. It is understood that an organization must have rules of conduct to be able to operate and maintain a structure. But every company has its “Mission Statement”. A hospital might address its desire to provide quality health care to its respective population. A manufacturing company could address is goal to produce products to improve lives of consumers while growing the company to realize a profit. Now, what would be the the “Mission Statement” for a yeshiva? Would it be the growth in Yiddishkeit, as defined by Ahavas Hashem and Yiras Hashem, or would it be the meticulous adherence to the structure of the yeshiva, i.e., the rules? I suspect that the statement should be about the midos that involve the connection to HKB”H, not the glory and reputation of the yeshiva or its leader. In such a situation, the show of force fails to demonstrate the Mission. Are the rules more important than the developing of the talmid as a Yirei Shomayim?

9. Every yeshiva has the right to deal with their own bochurim according to their own rules, and I am sure the hanhalla knows more about this situation than any of us. However, if 80 (!!!!) bochrim are going against a certain rule which is by no means halacha, maybe it is your rules that need changing.

10. One does not become a Rosh HaYeshiva overnight. It’s a long process. While this may look like a knee jerk reaction, and I’m sure we all know someone who went OTD and blames their RY, I’m sure the decision was not made lightly.

    I probably won’t agree with the reason behind the decision but I also don’t have a horse in the race.

    I hope the fallout from this expulsion does not result in any OTD lives and hope the RY can live with his decision if it does.

11. NGI:

    Every yeshiva has the right to set its own rules. If you don’t or can’t follow, then you should get tossed out. Really? Is that the real tachlis, to create compliant robots or drones? Yes, a yeshiva always has the “right” to expel a bochur. But is that why the yeshiva exists? I would hope there was a greater mission.

    Your comparison to a company is poor. The yeshiva is an arm of the tzibbur to provide Torah chinuch to the bochurim of its population. It should NOT be a competitive enterprise. A company is in the business for profit, not to provide people with jobs. A very different purpose. Do we really want our yeshivos to be like businesses? Is that the Ratzon Hashem? Will that benefit the Klal in general and the talmidim in particular?

12. @Yeshivaworld you must have a agenda here.

    Why do you post this Lashon Hora in the 9 days.

    Maybe post the names of the Buchrim once your at it.

13. This RY tends to get himself in yad soledes bo too often

14. etzhar:

    The article was written very poorly. I don’t have time to post the story in full and there likely is no heter to.

    But to answer your question yes there is a rule
    NO cellphones of any kind.

15. DrYidd – Who is RAK?

16. Who is RAK?

17. Did they ask a Gadol BaTorah? Also, for a KOSHER phone? don’t their parents need to be in touch with them?

18. I would think that nowadays everyone needs a phone because there are no more payphones. In a yeshiva bochurim could be required to keep their phone in a locker during shiur and only have their phones in their free time.

19. We they in trouble for having “kosher” phones instead of having regular (“non-kosher”) phones. That sounds unlikely.

    Or were they kicked out IN SPITE OF having a kosher phone, when the school made a rule banning all phones? Many schools, in many cultures and countries, are banning students from having phones since it seems to distract them from their studies.

20. Yes, certain rules deserve to be questioned. But there is a far greater issue here. It is about the consequences. Is expelling a bochur the appropriate consequence here? One might say that a RY is the boss and can do whatever he wants. That’s an arguable point. But methinks that the message here is that the bochur is what needs to be disposed of, not the phone. And that attitude frightens me greatly. Is that what yeshivas have evolved into, where the nefesh of a bochur is considered dispensable? Or is the problem the phones, which could be confiscated and returned when yeshiva is over? Have we diagnosed a bochur as an oisvorf because of the kosher phone? I am not questioning the authority. I am questioning the saichel. I wonder whether this RY sought advice and guidance from Gedolei Yisroel. I would think that would be necessary, since the bias of taking revenge on the RY’s rules should complicate the objectivity of the judgment that is used to render such decisions. And let’s not forget the psak of the Chazon Ish, that expelling a talmid is dinei nefashos that requires a beis din of at least 23.

21. RAK sounds like R’ Ahron Kotler.

22. Akuperma…..I initially misread the article as their having prohibited “kosher” phones with no further explanation. Apparently, as you correctly note, the prohibited ALL phones which seems to make no sense. Is the issue as Basmelech notes above one of their not having the phones with then during any seder in the beis medrash or not having any phones on their person at any time while enrolled at the yeshiva, including times when they are away form school during bein hazmanim etc.??

23. The little I know,
    I applaud you for your very honest screen name.

24. Yeshivas and RYs do as they please but it does not seem right to punish all with one decree. Prefered speaking to each talmid individually.

    BTW since this is a thing known publically it is NOT losh haRah.

25. Again the YWN is making fun of the yeshivah world by giving an absurd title to the article.
    The fact is that any school is allowed to have rules, and obviously this was against their rules.
    I think we should change the name of the site to “Against the Yeshiva World News.”

26. 613:

    Incorrect. The Yeshiva is making fun of themselves by making rules and consequences that are absurd. They can make any rules they wish, but that doesn’t disqualify them from being illogical, absurd, and of questionable Torah merit.

27. Last I heard all eighty bachurim were accepted by a certain Mesivta in Lakewood. A campaign to raise funds for airline tickets is now in process.

28. as the expression goes ‘ you do the crime you do the time” hopefully these boys will grow up

29. The headline says “EIGHTY Talmidim Ousted From Yeshiva In Eretz Yisroel For Having Kosher Phones” but it is not clear in the article—are Kosher Phones actually permitted (I would expect so), and perhaps the talmidim were expelled for not being able to confirm that the phones are actually kosher? Or do they expect some kind of forbidden activity despite the fact that they are kosher phones? There is a great lack of detail and facts, giving rise in the reader of this article to speculation and suspicion on all sides …is that what YWN wants…?

30. I’m reading many posts here that indicate misunderstandings of Israeli yeshivas. I’ll condense it for the Americans:
    1. In this yeshiva, no phones, kosher or non-kosher phones are allowed.
    2. The Rosh Yeshiva is a godol b’yisrael and need not consult with anyone besides himself.
    3. If a bochur needs his mommy or his pacifier, he can go home for a while, most of them live a bus ride away.
    4. Israeli bochurim tend to send and receive text messages constantly, and the RY felt the learning seder suffered too much from this reality. So, no phones allowed
    5. The boys likely signed a document promising they would abide by the rules and not have phones in their possession while in the yeshiva. They gambled and lost, at least temporarily.
    6> This ousting is relatively common and is done towards the end of the zman when it matters little. For Elul, the boys will do tshuva, promise they’ll be good, and will most likely be reinstated.

31. Typo: if it wasn’t clear, no phones are allowed. Period. Yes, kosher phones are forbidden.

32. Basmelech1

    “I would think that nowadays everyone needs a phone because there are no more payphones. In a yeshiva bochurim could be required to keep their phone in a locker during shiur and only have their phones in their free time.”

    There are still payphones!

    ohreli1

    Kosher phone are not allowed in that yeshiva.

33. rational:

    I did not misunderstand anything from the article. I can grasp the ban on all phones. There are ways to accomplish the goal of learning without distractions. Just making rules to ban, while simple to do, and the authority for that is there, may not be fore the ultimate good.

    As far as consulting, I raised in an earlier comment the word “bias”. When the edict comes from the RY, the enforcement is automatically biased. The consultation with an outsider is to maintain objectivity. Moshe Rabbeinu would be disqualified to testify for Aharon Hakohen, and not because he is lacking in stature, but because he is posul as a relative and biased.

    Your remark about needing mommy or pacifier is simply degrading. That is not appropriate at all, and kal vachomer in this period of mourning over the churban that was earned with sinaas chinom.

    I get the constant texting thing. How about mandating that phones not be brought into the beis hamedrash during seder or davening? Many shuls in America have small lockers where phones can be left so they don’t become a distraction.

    The boys likely signed a document. Therefore what? The yeshiva rules do not need signatures. And if they sign one, that makes their expulsion acceptable?

    Ousting is common? So getting thrown out of yeshiva is as significant as discarding a used tissue? How will the boys’ teshuvah be ascertained? Since when can any human make determinations based on teshuvah? So the boys get to return, and the expulsion was a shpiel. All that was gained is making this into a circus, some embarrassment to the boys, the wrecking of the image of the RY. Yes, this is newsworthy. This system is broken.

34. “detailed itemization of their calls ” — if that is of interest, it means they are objecting to students using the phone when they should be learning. This is a complaint of teachers throughout the world.

35. Dear YWN,
    Can you please, please, please stop posting articles like this. There is nothing to be gained (except for it’s use as clickbait) and as a (frum) jewish website we should try to be more careful about jumping to conclusions, especially during the 9 days.
    The Rosh Yeshivah of this yeshiva is a tremendous talmid chochom and is not a simple man.
    As Americans who are not fully involved or knowledgeable of the Israeli system it can be very had to relate to what is so wrong about the cellphones. This is besides for the fact that every yeshivah has a right to it’s own rules.
    Please don’t assume that you have any say in this matter, besides, I highly doubt any of the hanhalah of the yeshiva are reading these comments.

36. “4. Israeli bochurim tend to send and receive text messages constantly, and the RY felt the learning seder suffered too much from this reality. So, no phones allowed”

    In Israel, kosher phones DO NOT have text. Most bachurim in Charedi yeshivas who have phones. have kosher phones, hence they’re not texting at all.

37. Huhhh:

    As an American, I understand what’ wrong with cell phones. That’s not the part where the ocean divide matters. We all have cell phones, we all need to insure they do not disturb us from davening and learning, and we all need to take steps to prevent them from becoming an addiction.

    What is perplexing to us is something that happens in America, too. Perhaps with less drama, perhaps with lower numbers. That’s the house cleaning that throws bochurim out to the street. It has nothing at all to do with the greatness or erudition of the Rosh Yeshiva. So far, no one has challenged that. But a Gadol in his own right has no authority to pasken shailos for himself. And the inherent bias, with the severity of the consequence of expulsion is truly dinei nefashos, as the Chazon Ish stated. We are also not jumping to conclusions, neither about the bochurim who we don’t know, nor the RY who was not identified here. We also acknowledge the authority of every yeshiva to make its own rules. But the system is obviously dysfunctional when situations like this happen. If you review the earlier comments, mine and those of others, you should have no problem recognizing that this is not about the cell phones, which suffered no consequence, but about 80 neshamos who were dumped in the street. That system is broken.

    If you will study how gedolim addressed the situation of a bochur (or as in this case bochurim) who broke the rules, you will see that the precedents are completely different in how they were handled. With all the due respect to this unnamed RY, he cannot claim to be greater than the Chazon Ish, the Chofetz Chaim, the Satmar Rov, the Nesivos Shalom, Rav Shach, etc. Zecher Tzaddikim Livrocho. Our Chazal tell us (Berachos 10a) יתמו חטאים מן הארץ, חטאים ולא חוטאים. Banish sin, not the sinners. Yes, there are times when an expulsion is necessary, but that requires objective, unbiased ruling (with a beis din of minimum 23), not the reaction of the RY who created the rule. And this is relevant to matters that involve true aveiros, such as chilul Shabbos, not just the homemade ones about behavior standards.

38. And how did they catch them either they where using smart phone technology
    Or asked some one to massor on them
    Very interesting
    No
    Where does it say anything about riles concerning phones

39. Big deal. In the whole skim of things and what’s going on in the world ..who cares. By making this decision you probably lost a few bachorim of continuing to be observant Jews. This should be their only ‘sin’.