53 Responses

1. Did they ask Rav Eliashiv about The Yeshiva World News?

2. Several questions here: Apparently, this is not the first time a warning was issued. When was the first time and at which publications?

   Two: What are the concerns of the rabbeim who brought this before Rav Elyashiv?

   Three: Were these educators American or Israeli?

   I am still trying to figure out the purpose of this website. If someone sneezes and Hatzolah is on the scene, you describe it in accute detail. But when it is a major condemnation that impacts thousands of families, your information is sorely lacking.

   Editors Response: It would be nice if you would R-E-A-D the last line of the story before attacking us:

   (By Israeli Yated Ne’eman Staff for Dei’ah veDibur)

   Sheesh! 

3. Jewish Press,
   five towns jewish rag

4. Excuse me? Is their sorry excuse for detailed reporting an exemption for you to employ similar tactics?

   Just what sort of professional editor’s response is that? If you crumble under legitimate questioning of your newsworthiness, you are seriously insecure and guilty of blaming others instead of owning up to the truth.

   This piece of news you posted has serious implications for Bnei Torah everywhere. What publications is Rav Elyashiv referring to? Mishpacha? Bina? I, and thousands like me have enjoyed these magazines for some time now and, while I dont agree with everything written there, I dont subscribe to a viewpoint that requires my news to be sanitized based on the opinion of one Gadol.

   It is YOU who has to be responsible about what you post on a website that claims to report the news. Unless this is just entertainment in which case this story and others like it are nothing but a practical joke (not a funny one at that.)

   Do a thorough job of reporting, or at least let the reader know where additional information about this concern can be found.

   Editor’s Response: Your question was: “I am still trying to figure out the purpose of this website. If someone sneezes and Hatzolah is on the scene, you describe it in accute detail. But when it is a major condemnation that impacts thousands of families, your information is sorely lacking.”

   After you question the purpose of “this website”, and poke fun at YWN – we simply responded to your questions in a simple, one-sentence response. We will post the same response once again:

   Editors Response: It would be nice if you would R-E-A-D the last line of the story before attacking us:

   HINT: (By Israeli Yated Ne’eman Staff for Dei’ah veDibur)

5. Mr. Editor,

   I am surprised that you have not permitted my reply to your insulting retort and yet you post the even more biting comment asking if Rav Elyashiv approves of your site.

   I am asking some very sensible questions and would like to be directed to where this information is found.

   Editors Response: Once again, you accuse us of something which we have not done – not posting your comment.

   Please. READ the last line in the above story.

6. To the Editor:

   You didnt respond to the last question:

   “I am still trying to figure out the purpose of this website. If someone sneezes and Hatzolah is on the scene, you describe it in accute detail. But when it is a major condemnation that impacts thousands of families, your information is sorely lacking.”

   Editors Response: Which part of the above response do you not understand? The fact that not ONE word of this story was written by YWN? Again, please read the last line in the story: (By Israeli Yated Ne’eman Staff for Dei’ah veDibur)

7. With all the charamim out there, most people couldn’t care less…

8. Would you mind naming the weeklies in question the gdolim are warning against? thanks

9. has he seen the 5 town jewish times?
   or are we talking about the stock charts in the hamodia that are so irrlevant and yet you cant even look at t on shabbas – its irrlevant becuase financial news that is old is irrlevant.

10. if I understand correctly… the Yated which has taken on itself to decide which Gedolim should be followed and which they are alowed to ridicule is looking for a ban on hamodia?

11. I am curious to know which publications they are referring to. I certainly hope not Mishpacha, which I believe to be a true Godol amongst Torah publications.

12. Can you please tell me what weeklies you/they mean?

13. Non-the-less, is it possible for the Editor to shed light on this article. I have the same questions as #2.

14. What weeklies are they referring to. Is this just another example of people being scared that the walls of the gettos of the Charadi world are being breeched!Every day more and more things are being banned, Of course one has to be careful with what one reads and does in daily life but as more and more prohibitions are made there are more and more people who are opting out and the problems with our youths are getting stronger, There has to be a happy medium not everyone can sit and learn all day!

15. how funny, Yeted Ne’Eman (israeli) wrote this article when they themselves should be on this black list…

16. great way to keep business strong for yated; ban every other paper!

17. What are the names of these weeklies?

18. Another pathetic attempt by interested parties (who own the Chareidi Newspaper World) to ensure that:
    – Their readership doesn’t bolt once they discover that a frum newspaper can be of a high standard
    – Their readership don’t get educated on any worldly matters, and discover that they are being hoodwinked all the time
    – Their readers don’t discover that their are other Gedolim besides for the handful that they claim

    “Ignorance is Bliss”

    – Doniel, a frequent reader of both types of publications

19. to #15 frummie…lets say there is one non-kosher establishment that is banned and then another few opened up and were banned you will cry “more and more things being banned”? so if the newspapers propegate things that are anti torah hashkofos even the owners are not of those hashkofos just that paricular writer, we are not banning more and more its the same issur…

20. Ditto to #20.

21. I wonder if people realize that seeking to ban information from the masses, might be an indication just how weak the chareidi ideal is. After all, if it can’t pass real intellectual analysis, of what worth is it? How can chareidiut represent G-d’s truth, if its leaders are scared of infiltration from anything foreign?

22. to #24 mr cantor esq…from your former posts we already dicerned from your tone of writing that you are not shomer torah umitzvos, at minimum ,your dayous are anti torah.. “ban information from the masses”.. “how weak the chareidi ideal is”..”how can chareidiut represent g-ds truth” with these wordings we can unequivically say it as fact , so what are you doing on chareidi shomer torah u’mitzvos site…there are plenty not yet shomer torah umitzvos sites..one can list at least a doz of anti torah haskafos according to thier postings here. were not going to mention thier signitures , because they’r going to start crying “your attacking me blah, blah, 4th grade blah blah…. so according to you ,can you let us know your “—- truths” as opposed to chareidei’s g-ds truths of which is torah s’hebeksav and torah s’hebal peh which is included in the arba chelkay shulchun urech. which is the true “torah” according to you that was derived by your “intlectual analysis”? the new testement , afre l’pima… by the way the gemmorrah states many times we should not dwell into sifrei minim , excuse, actually ossur to, also “eilu sheain lohem chelek l’olomhabah hakorah hakorah b’sifrei chitzonium” sanhedrin 90a ,so according to you the holy chachomim were seeking to ban “information from the masses” , not let masses “real intelectual analysis” etc.,the holy chasam soifer and of course all the gedolai torah asserd to dwell into the books of the heretic R’MD sr’y one of the main propegators of the reform movemnt…according to you he wanted to ban..etc, etc ,etc… so we ,”weak chareidi ideal” guys will stick to the holy chasam soifer ideals, etc etc and you just go to those sites that share YOUR INTELLECTUAL ANALYSIS THAT REPRESENTS YOUR , I DONT KNOW WHO’S, TRUTHS…

23. jent, While I wouldn’t go so far as saying cantor is not shomrei torah u’mitzvos, he has his priorities all messed up. That is certainly many of us have long realized from his posts.

    cantor, should we distribute the new testament to yeahiva kids since we have nothing to fear a need to “ban information”? That is where your logic leads.

24. I’d like to know why my comment wasn’t posted. I think it would only be fair to allow everyones points to come across, even those you the editor don’t agree with. The comment section here is filled with Loshan Hora and I’d be shocked if ANY of the Gedolim would approve of it if they would see first hand what goes in here.

25. #28 (Pashuteh): Rav Miller never advocated allowing Yiddish kinder to read the new testament.

26. to #26 ujm…the statement “priorities mixed up”..doesn’t make sense here..what priorities? what he says here is straightforward kfira read and reread his words…can you list priority #1 and ptiority #2 so we can understand what priorities are mixed up?

27. #25, you know nothing about me, nor I about you. For all you know, I could be the one who gives the daf yomi shiur in your shul, and for all I know, you could be Noam Chomsky (a velt barimpter apikorus). Your seeming attitude towards secualr knowledge seems in with the Liska Rebbe’s famous quip that a G-d fearing Jews ned know only so much of the Latin alphabet that he can sign his name but nothing more. Yet your presence on this site indicates that even you have departed from that structure. Moreover, I assume you adhere to the prnouncements of the Moetzes Gedolei Torah. Their views on the internet are well knowm, and I don’t recall them carving out an exception for this site. So what gives? If you are going to be so quick to bandy about the Chatham Sofer, are you prepared to follow his lead on all matters? The Chatham Sofer spoke or at least was familiar with about six languages, aomg them German, French and Italian. Are you? He studied advanced mathematics, physics, chemistry, anatomy, history, geography and astronomy. We know he did all that from his responsa. Moses Burack in his biography of the Chatham Sofer elucidates this point very cogently. Have you studied all that meteral?Moreover, despite the common myth, anyone who is at all familiar with the Chatham Sofer’s biography knows that he carried on exteneive and friendly correspondence with people publicly identified with the then nascent reform movement. On both issues I refer you to Aaron M. Schreiber: The Hatam Sofer’s Nuanced Attitude Towards Secular Learning, Maskilim and Reformers in the Torah u’Maddah Journal vol 11 2002-03. Professor Marc Shapiro has documented that he gave permission to his student, a Rabbi Horowitz to sit on a Beth Din in Vienna with the rabbi of the Seittentempel Gasse synagogue, the liberal congregation of Vienna. There is far more the Chatham Sofer than you might think. Before you rely on myths about the man, even commenly held myth, you might want to avail yourself of some of the truth out there. As a postscript, as I recall, both the Chatham Sofer and R. Chaim Volozhiner read a daily newspaper.

28. to #31…the more we think of your statements regarding the holy chasam soifer the more incensed one can become…we are looking now into the sefer chut hamshilosh..what he writes about how his grandfather delt with the maskilim and you have the audacity to aliegn him with them …one of the maskilim “rah..bbis” name was rabbiner aron chariner (sr’y) the holy chasam sofer refered to him as achar (chazir) {aron chariner rabbiner} in hebrew it denotes the three letters the sages used to refer to dover “achar” (chazir…) see chut hamshilosh page 79a..the maskilim “rabbis” (rabonim) he refered as “rah- bonim”..yeh mr “intlectual analysis”…mir zeien gantz gut vie eir halt in rochnious..so hackt nit kain chienik… so my advice is get yourself the sefer “chut hamshulosh” by hh’g shlomo soifer son of hh’g ktsav soifer son of the holy chasam soifer

29. to #1 dont have time to take your mumble jumble and refute each sentence in one shot so will do piecemeal…1st, you say the “mans” that also is a giveaway to vi eirnhalt in hashkofes we dont address such holy tzaddikim as the “man” they were malochim, second our “myth” of the holy chasam soifer was derived from his chiddisum,and droshos AGAINST the maskilim, orally from our holy rabbis but you can check up on those MYTHS in sefer chut hamshulesh, and not from those places you refered to which those writers probably share you hashkofes….adious for now..

30. to#31 mr cantor esg…please re-read 1st 3 lines post #25 and refute instead of coming with childish rantings that has nothing to do with subject discussed….you say “you know nothing about me, we dont know nothing about you” see article “crown heights man…” april 25 post #30 that its not so…by the way, we read in the book “my father ,my teacher” brings down ,dont remeber the protim, about a apikorous that refered to the “bais yosef” (of the arbaey chelkai shulchen urech),besides talking against him he refered to him as “joseph Ka–(i dont even want to finnish)so that rov told him to call the holy “bais yoseph” “joseph k—“is bigger kefirah then talking against his writing..see his reasoning there…..we are just mentioning this because you referred to the holy chasam soifer as the “man”..even not so dimyon ..but get the idea..now please dont get insulted and start ranting…we didnt get insulted when you was medame me to that soine yiroel chomsky, or when the others demtoe me to 3rd,4th,6th,grades,dont know gammer etc.,etc, grow up and take criticisem

31. #32 I don’t deny that the Chatham Sofer had long feud with Aron Chorin of Arad. Chorin, with his insiduous psak regarding sturgeon, and his intriduction of reform practices in schuls was a huge threat to traditional Jewish life in Hungary and the Chatham Sofer rightly sought to nullify his influence. But at the same time, we canot deny that he read the haskalah literature of the time, the journals Bikkurei ha-Ittim and the Ha-Measeif. He refers to them in his teshuvot and in correspondence with R. Esriel Hildesheimer. He gave haskamot to secular books written in Hebrew (the book Parpraot LChochma) and even publicly wrte that he would buy Loeb Duaks’ German translation of Rashi’s peirush on Chumash. Regarding a certain Shlomoh Rappaport, a leading maskil of the day who held rather liberal religious views, the Chatham Sofer nearly forfeited his friendship with R. Shlomo Kluger because the later could not tolerate the former’s defenses of this maskil. There is alot more to the Chatham Sofer than is contained in the Chut Hameshulosh and I suggest you avail yourself of the information rather than rely on reviosionist myth. And BTW, I have my grandfather’s copy of that sefer in my study, I’ve read it. I particularly enjoy the sections on R. Nosson Adler, since my maternal great grandfather is descended from the same family line.

32. correction, post #33 is addressed to post #31…excuse please..

33. # 33 why do you insult the Chatham Sofer and call him a malach? Why would you deny him koach habechira? We know from many midrashim and mamarei Chazal that HK”BH prefers the motzvot of b’nei adam over those of the malachim since we CHOOSE to do them and they have no choice but to do them. By comparing him to a Malach, you seek to reduce the Chatham Sofer’s s’char. Shame on you. Additionally, you may prefer to learn about the Chatham Sofer from secondary sources like the Chut Hameshulosh. I prefer to look to his actions and his own writings for evidence of who he was. C’est la vie.

34. to #37…tell me, are you for real?…what is pshat un “im doime hurav l’malech hashem tzevuous yevakshou torah mipihu v’im lav…” moed katen 17a…this is figurativly speaking…we dont address our holy leaders as the “man”.. the rambam, the noda b’yehuda, the igros moshe,etc, etc…so that is what we pointed out and you come with whole klotz pshetel.. anyway me think we have pointed out enough of where we think you stand wuth your unchareidi haskofes, you pointed out enough of how un-secular educated we are. from now on bl’n when we see a post that smacks of uncharedi posts we’ll just put a little reminder “hello unchareidi”. your reious aher rayous ahin, talmid hoyo… shehoyo metahar as hasharetz b’mayoh v’chamishim tamim” eurevun 13b…the point is your unchareidi hashkofes toigen nit…

35. #38 if you need to ignore certain facts about past gedolim in order to maintain your chareidi beliefs, exactly what is it about those gedolim that you venerate? For example, chareidim maintain that it is assur to read secular Jewish scholarship. Yet when it is dispositively proven that the Chatham Sofer was familiar with the haskalah literature of his day, rather than re-examine their belief in light of that gadol’s actions, chareidim ignore the fact that the Chatham Sofer read haskalah literature and continue to venerate him for his (mythical)total war against Haskalah. Indeed there were many things about the Haskalah that the Chatham Sofer opposed. But there were aspects of it he endorsed and even embraced, even when done by his own talmidim. When it is proven that the Chatham Sofer’s views on reform or neologue Judaism and his relationships with its leaders were considerably more nuanced and complex than as retold by his grandson, long after he was dead, chareidim ignore the historical truth and continue to venerate the (false) image they have of the Chatham Sofer. (The rav of Sziszko/Kolomea’s impression of the Chatham Sofer was not universally accepted in his day. The Maharam Schick had an entirely different perspective of him) And the Chatham Sofer is not unique. Does any Lakewooder even realize that R. Chaim Volzhiner was prepared to allow secular studies into his yeshiva and that the dispute with the Russian government had to do with the amount of secular studies and centered more on turning authority over the curriculum to government control, and not the secular studies themselves? Would chareidim even consider that just prior to closing the yeshiva, R. Chaim, over the staunch objection of R. Yosef Ber Soleveitchik, installed a secular studies teacher in Volozhin and told his most senior students to go to his classes instead of the second seder? Would any Lakewood yungerman believe it even if presented with the historical evidence of its truth? It seems almost as if 21st century norms are forced upon the deceased gedolim and they are then venerated, not for who they were or for what they stood, but rather their true views are ignored or brushed aside in favor of the current chareidi zeitgeist which is falsly ascribed to them. If secualr Jewish scholarship is assur in all its forms, as is currently believed by chareidim, why do they so venerate the Chatham Sofer when he himself read and appreciated that literature? If secular learning is forbidden, why is R. Chaim so fondly thought of when he directed his students to skip Torah learning and go study secular studies? Mimah Nafshach, the Chatham Sofer and R. Chaim were as great as people say, then they were great because of those approaches to every facet of the human condition. Aside from being intellectually dishonest in the extreme, the revisionism of today vis-a-vis past gedolim represents the epitome of disrespect to those great rabbis. Rather than learn from who they were, what they stood for, and what they did, we force upon them a false legacy, one created by contemporary weltanschaung. In fact it is the chareidim who, in the imposition of this flase legacy in defiance of the historical record who clearly demonstrate that they believe that in fact they know better than the gedolim of yore; that their 21st century opinions are more correct than those of those who lived closer to the revelation at Sinai. Think about it.

36. to #39.. see #38 you say “your chareidi believes” “chareidim maintain”..bring it on(yes i’m a admirer of PRES. BUSH) ..you proove yourselve beyond shadow of doubt what we think your unchareidi haskafas are..after this post (#39) me thinks its much worse ..goodby mr unchareidi. kutchi, kutchi..we have a story that brings out a yesodosdike point to refute you, but no time now..maybe next trap that we catch your unchareidi haskafos, just keep in mind POST #38 line 9 & 10..

37. RE: post #40..correction…last line should be #38 line #4,5,6..

38. #40, huh? I’m truly sorry, but I simply did not understand your mnessage.

39. to #39.. how old are you? 100 years, 150 years, that you can without reservation ascribe to these “historical truths”… so you got them from your mekoros that have your unchareidi haskofos…and we got our “myths” from our chareidi mekoros..you know what we can go on and on back and forth with no end..so just see article “crown heights man…” april 25 post #30 last 5 lines ..thats what it about, not your reious aher reious ahine…

40. Dear Editor,
    If you dont have the guts to name names, which I assume R’ Elyashiv would like you to, PLEASE DONT WASTE OUR TIME WITH HALF AN ARTICLE FROM DEAH V’DIBUR.
    THANKS, JOE

41. to mr cantor esq.. can you please give us 3,4 samples of gedolim that YOU venerate so we can have an idea of what kind of gedolim you want us to venerate and maybe we can venerate them too, so we wouldnt be embarrased by being asked “what is it about those gedolim that you venerate” (post #39 1st 2 lines)

42. to #39…line #10.. you say “..as told by his grandson, long after he was dead..” and you sir was alive.huh?…also another giveaway vie eir halt..we chareidi do not refer to tzaddikim and even reg yidden as dead ..the term is “was niftar” “tzaddikim b’misuson nikra chaim” and this is “historical truth”..also because you add “proven”, “historicl truths” etc, etc, doesnt mean was proven or that they are truths or facts. again, where did you pick up all this garbage from..i’m sure if you’d have a little more chutzpah you’d even say chasom soifer actually sided with the maskilim, afre l’pime. you are pretty close to saying that from YOUR “historical truths” “facts”, PROVEN”..

43. In other words #43, you are unwilling or unable to confront and address the truths of history.

44. #45, why do you ask thise question, so you can then insult them? I see no point in providing the requested information. But I will tell you this, in yeshiva, I learned under the Suvalker Rav zt”l, and I was very close with R. Shlomo Drillman zt”l.

45. #46, regarding my sources of information about the Chatham Sofer I have provided you with two references. Have you looked into them? The Schreiber article is available online from the Yshiva Univeristy website. As to proving the historical assertions made, the articles provide foornotes to the Chatham Sofer’s own writings. How much more proof do you need? Or are you about to pull the timles chareidi trick as claiming that the writings proferred as forged?

46. to #48.. we heard plenty of “talmid s’henischametz…” where and what you learned is irrevelant..

47. to #49… see #46, #40..ok, now mir farshtein fun ve eir kimt .yetzt stumt shoin alles, but we’ll stick to our chareidi ideals..also in #45 we didnt mean your private rebbe or your next door rov who you were close with..meant who is it that you look up to as gedoile hador as opposed to ours, as you say in post #39 “what is it about those gedolim that you venerate” and since we mentioned in that post that you were refering to (#38), the rambam, the noda b’yehuda, the igros moshe,etc etc..is it the clergys stephen weise,emanuel rackman, yoffen ?..just want to have idea with which clergy you identify with,and who you look up to as gedoile hador..and please all those references are not machria more then our references ,they were still written and recorded by human beings they are not k’moshe m’pi hagvurah (at least that you are mode that torah s’hbecsav and bal peh was given to moshe rabbeinu b’har sinai b’chol prutahu v’dikdikaho (1st rashi b’har)..so no differ if you can see it in yeshivh universa. or library of congress , we have a collection of igros chasam soifer…so lets not recycle …anyway please read, reread and reread post #43 all this dicussion is about your hashkofos as opposed to THOSE chariedi..

48. to #47
    ..repeating yourself…who established those “truths of history”..because yeshivah univer. has it on line?..

49. to #44… we dont mind not to know so our time not wasted

50. #51, you want to to know who I consider to be the gedolei hador. That’s a complicated question since I am very aware of the greatness of many people, even if I do not subscribe to their particular school of thought. Thus, manhigim whom you venerate (with possible exception of one particular Rosh Yeshiva in Pennsylvaniw who I think is outrightly obnoxious) I most probably deeply resepct as well. My religious thought however has been largly shaped by the approaches of R. Dr. Norman Lamm, R. Dr. Jacob Schacter, R. Shalom Carmy and R. Dr. Eliezer Berkowitz z”l. As I said before, I was very close with R. Shlomo Drillman, and I learned by R. Dovod Lifschitz. Those two, along with my father z”l gave me great hadracha in learning. I hope that sould asnwer your question to your satisfaction.

51. #52 the referenfce to the Y.U. website is simply where you can find the article in question. The statements about the Chatham Sofer having cordial relations and correspondence with leading maskilim and having read haskalah literature are based on the Chatham Sofer’s own writings, both in his t’shuvot and his correspondence with R. Esriel Hildesheimer along with the actual letters he sent to those maskilim and the letters they sent him. Additionally there are the haskamot he gave to certain books authored by maskilim I would imagine that the Chatham Sofer’s own words on the subject should be dispositive. That his grandson later tried to ignore the historical record and revise his grandfather’s stance on such matters, is hardly surprising. The grandson was writing at the time of the official split between the secessionist Orthodox and the neologues. It was imperative that Orthodoxy appear to have been consistent in its hard line approach vis-a-vis anything non-Orthodox per se. Thus the revisionism.

52. t0 #52 can you please rfer to us 2,3 names of works of maskilim , the names of the works and also where we can see the holy chasam soifer give haskama on those works?

53. #56, look at posts 31 and 35 for the references you now ask for.