This story takes place in the United States, as told by HaGaon HaRav Yitzchak Zilberstein Shlita, Mora D’asra of the Ramat Elchanan community of Bnei Brak.
The rav tells the story of six yeshiva talmidim who decided they are going to assist their yeshiva by raising money. These bochrim visited the home of a well-known gvir in the community, a resident with the ability to write out a substantial check.
The response of this philanthropist was somewhat bizarre, telling the bochrim that for each one of them willing to jump into his ice-cold swimming pool fully clothed, the yeshiva will receive $1000. The bochrim did not hesitate and all six jumped in with their clothing on. The gvir was good to his word, writing out a check to the yeshiva in the promised amount of $6000.
The proud bochrim submitted the money to the yeshiva, and when the administration learned of how they got the donation, the yeshiva decided to tear up the check, which they feel was earned by denigrating Torah, albeit with good intensions.
Rav Zilberstein addressed the question if the gvir is required to write out another check. The rav ruled after much pilpul regarding the sheilah that the gvir did not have to repay the $6000 to tzedaka because “it was not a donation, but a disgrace”.
(YWN Israel Desk – Jerusalem)
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30 Responses
I have seen/heard of fundraising efforts that I’d conider a bigger bizayon hatorah than this dunkin in the pool silliness. What was the “biazyon” other than having to change into a dry suit.
I think that it should be made clear that the picture in the article is of the Rav who gave the psak, and not chas v’shalom, l’havdil, the person who the article is about
The gvir will no doubt find other deserving causes and the good Rabbi from Bnei Brak is not be one of them.
Oh dear! Have we all forgotten about what the Gemara says about Yechezkel ben Buzi HaCohen? He had that name because he was prepared to be “mevazeh” (disgrace) himself for the purpose of honouring the Torah. So we see that someone who can forego his own self respect to give the honour to the Torah, is not lessening the honour of the Torah but quite the opposite, elevates its esteem by showing how far a person should be prepared to go to give honour where it is due. Those bochurim are certainly worthy of such an accolade. We can only wonder if the circumstances under which the donor gave his money was in a mood of good humour and was testing the boys to show how much they really care. The proof being that once they showed their commitment, the donor matched their commitment with his kind donation. With respect to the Yeshiva authorities, maybe they should be asked again if it was really correct to reject the donation or if they could come to accept the fact that there are some weird and whacky individuals who have strange ways of doing things but are still doing good deeds that should be gratefully and graciously accepted. Shame they ripped up the cheque. If it had been locked away pending further discussions it might have been helpful. Earning that sort of money is a lot of work for many of us.
There are countless cases of gedolim saying they don’t want to be paraded around America because of בזיון התורה (rav Shach for one, and Rav Moshe had the idea of it) so this shouldn’t be any worse
A nice little story for between Purim Koton and Purim! If there is any truth in it, it is probably that the “Gvir” usually gives shiny faced bochurim that come for their Yeshiva $100 each. This time he decided to be generous and at the same time give them a story to tell.
Denigrating torah or seeing how far the bachurim were willing to go to raise the money?
I one time watched a live fundraiser where a caller offered one of the largely overweight fundraisers $1,000 for each pound of weight he loses over the next 6 month (?) [might have been 3 months or a year- i forget that detail]
At the time I thought what an inspiring moment it will be when this person accepts the challenge and works on himself as a person and gives towards the tzedakka by his ability to lose tens of pounds while raising thousands for the organization.
The man passed on the offer.
Why is this any different than the ice bucket challenge that so many people were doing a few years ago to raise money for tzedakah? Why not give them the money without making them dump an ice cold bucket of water on their heads? It’s the same as having to run or bike for miles while sweating it out in the heat of the summer and so many more mishugasim. Give the money without making the people do these things. My daughter ran for an organization last year and she hated every minute of it. She was exhausted and charly horse for days. But she wanted to raise the money and it was the only way to get people to give the amounts they did. For some reason we have this mentality that if you want our tzedakah you need to earn it by physically exerting yourself and being as uncomfortable as possible.
No less a BIZAYON HATORAH than Yeshivas raising funds via bingo or gambling.
Maybe it was bezoyon HaTorah to send the boys collecting as the Yeshiva obviosly did not need the money. What is the havamina that the gvir should write a new check? Now they were mevaze him and need to ask mechila.
“Why is this any different than the ice bucket challenge…..”
why is this different than ANY chineese auction or other incentive to give. just give.
Why victimize the victims? The bachurim already went thru the bizayon. There is no reason why the “Yeshiva” (some hothead in the office?) should of tore up the check. Total sanctimonious self righteousness. Whoever tore up the check, should have the full amount reduced from HIS salary.
I read a similar story regarding a baal tzidaka here in Flatbush, who was niftar a few years ago, that had the bachurim go in his basement and shoot some hoops and based on how many shots they got in, that would be the size of the check. Nu nu, what’s wrong with a little fun? I wonder if this is the story is the one the author is alleging
To those who doubt the story was made-up, nobody has an “ice-cold” swimming pool.
When the weather gets “ice-cold,” people with swimming pools drain them, as far as I know.
Not only that, but jumping into literally ice-cold water will cause hypothermia and death within minutes and shock within less than a minute. That’s why falling through thin ice in a lake is so dangerous. You’ve got less than a minute to get out.
But on Purim it’s ok to dress up, joke, give a funny shpiel, clown around , to collect funds for yeshivos. So the wealthy man was an eccentric, so what?!
Rabbi Zilberstein quotes the Ben Ish Chai in the hakdama to one of his seforim that we can write an imagined story in order to impart a lesson or halacha. There’s a reason why no one in America has heard this bizarre story which is said to have occurred here.
I have the highest regard for this tzaddik & gaon but I believe his stories are theoretical in order to bring out a halacha in an interesting way.
Kol Hakavod to the Yehiva which refused the donation given to the bochurim who agreed to jump into the pool. Supporting Torah is a privilege and obligation and not a gimmick which degrades Bnei Torah. Please post the name of the Yeshiva so I can send them a donation.
…. Or park trucks blaring loud music on the block past midnight disrupting sleep . They’re representing mostly yeshivos & some other orgs for good causes. Nobody complains about that.
I love how people assume they know everything. 20 years back, our (very famous) yeshivah sent boys to Chicago to collect on Purim. A rich guy there had a yearly routine to entertain his family with spectacles like this one and much worse.
It’s sad that most comments here are on the side of the boys. And very few have any idea why Yeshivah tore the checks.
Ben Torah needs to act in a respectful way. While acting in a less than respectful way the money that came from it is also tainted. Just like wage of a harlot.
Also, the question about gvir writing a new check… since he made an action to give money it’s like a neder. Does he need to give to the same organization again? That’s another question but he should give to someone.
Refoel Moishe: Had the wealthy individual said, “Let me go around collecting. Let me beg for the honor of the Torah. Let me forego my honor for HIS honor” then you would be correct in your moshul. But here the opposite was done. Here he asked to have the opportunity to do just the opposite. To show he is the michubad.
workingmom: Not at all the same. Firstly, the fundraiser chooses to bike, run, or take the challenge. Secondly, at least in their minds, those activities bring them kovod. In this case, real or fabricated, the wealthy fellow was (a) taking advantage of the bochrim, and (b) showing them whose on top. The Rav needs not my haskomah, but he is correct.
I notice with sadness the deep lack of awareness about the Torah world in Eretz Yisrael. Perhaps it stems from the almost total inability of American yeshiva boys to read Hebrew in almost any form. The consequences inevitably follow.
So, to set the record straight:
1. Rav Zilberstein is a majpr posek here and is asked critical shailos by all flavors of the orthodox spectrum
2. Rav Zilberstein is not only “son-in-law of”, but is widely respected for his wide range of Torah and worldly knowledge
3. The Rav is known for tackling hypothetical situations in his shiurim, the purpose being to convey the fundamentals of the question theoretically posed, rather than to simply give a technical psak.
Given these facts, the comments on the Rav’s Torah or social wisdom are absurd, uninformed, and border on the childish. These comments belittle the writers much more than they belittle the Rav.
Conclusion: Learn Hebrew. Read Hebrew. Read the Israeli press. Understand what goes on here. If you can’t or won’t, keep it zipped, otherwise you’ll embarrass only yourself.
I remember a story like this when I was a child, about 20 years ago. It happened on Purim in an out of town city (West of the Mississippi River). And the Rosh Hayeshiva Z”l did make them rip up the check.
I don’t know how much money the check was for it was a nice amount, and I don’t know if that’s the story that Rav Zilberstein Shilt”h is referred to. But it definitely happened!
Id be happy to do that as a bucher. I see a guy with a sense of humor not bizyon. He should have given money for themselves as well (for like dmaged shoes and stuff)
gH,
“What was the “biazyon” other than having to change into a dry suit.”
Would you have done it? If one would request the very same actions from a respectable businessman would he be highly offended?
Case closed!
“Why is this any different than the ice bucket challenge”
Asides that this much more of an awkward position, who decided that the very “ice bucket challenge” is normal? They are both simply a Bizoyan, rather, question yourself – why are we accepting this behavior as the norm?
My personal non Daas Torah opinion is that after the bachurim showed such mesiras nefesh on behalf of the yeshiva it would be unthinkable to then rip up the check. How could you take away from them the sense of accomplishment after enduring such discomfort on behalf of Torah.
Gaon: Why do you think the case is closed? If the businessman was getting something tremendous out of it that he couldn’t get another way and was something truly important, do you think he would think twice about doing it?
@haimy instead they were given something greater: self respect ,reverence, deference, and honor for their own torah and torah in general
Flowers, point is it will still be degrading, disrespectful and lowly of the one demanding it.
It is no diff than the talmud having laws of זקן ות”ח שאינו לפי כבודו that it exempts one from mitzvos of hashvos aveida or helping one..
The swarm of “shalichim” coming from EY every week to collect money for a seemingly endless list of mosdos with mixed credentials and credibility, some driving around with Uber with a list of addresses of “givers” is a much greater bizayon but this type of schneuring seems to have become an “accepted” part of living in a frum neighborhood or town. There are much more effective online and electronic ways of screening various mosdos (outside of one-to-one giving of tzadakah) which assure privacy is retained, validate the credentials of the recipients and overall increase the ease of giving (including providing the givers with a simple record of donations for tax purposes). The current system is unfair to charities, donors and provides unlimited opportunities for these types of inappropriate “giving” conditions.