[VIDEO IN EXTENDED ARTICLE]
In his address to the Knesset plenum, MK (Yahadut Hatorah) Rabbi Yaakov Asher explains that he read something in the daily news that “that made my blood boil”. Asher reminds the plenum that on the same day there was a stormy debate surrounding the issue of women’s tefilla at the Kosel, primarily the Women of the Wall, which recently enjoyed a court victory supporting their efforts to daven in the ezras noshim with tallis and tefilin.
Asher explains that Gafne addressed this and expressed his sincere pain over women wearing tefilin at the Kosel. Asher quotes Gafne calling for one tefilla and avoiding provocative acts at the Kosel, permitting the site to remain united.
Asher continues, stating he read a response from MK Lipman “who calls himself chareidi” in which he addresses Gafne’s remarks, and Gafne’s pain over women with tefilin at the Kosel. He quotes Lipman who says “I heard Gafne’s words and I am surprised. I ask myself why men are looking in the direction of the women as the Kosel. While my wife and daughters do not conduct themselves as such….”
Asher turns to Lipman, asking him “I have one request, please don’t speak as a chareidi and don’t ridicule people after you entered Knesset after a certain person felt you dress chareidi so you are chareidi.”
Lipman responds, quoting Yirmiyahu to make his point. Lipman states one who is “chareid B’davar Hashem” is chareidi, stating the need for derech eretz and mutual respect, one who does not judge who and who is not chareidi, leaving that to Hashem. Lipman points out that historic photos show men and women at the Kosel side by side and that is fine, pointing out that while it is a religious site it does not have the Halachos of a shul. Lipman stresses the importance of achdus and appeals for not holding the Torah hostage with short sided definitions of one another.
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(YWN – Israel Desk, Jerusalem)
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36 Responses
A nice dispute between him and ‘Rabbi’ Rabinowitz
Since when does Yeshiva World decide who is a Rabbi or who isn’t?
Why is the word Rabbi in the headline in quotes?
Are you judging him b/c he has a different opinion than you? Is it b/c he sins differently than you?
Just wondering here, thank you!!
i am suprised that during sefirah , this site would post this article and put “rabbi” in quotes.
somebody needs to go back and learn why all the talmidim died during this period.
Is he arguing in favor of removing the mechitza at the Kotel? What kind of Rabbi is this? Reform?
Actually, the kossel is NOT a shul. It’s a public place at which many people want to daven – and therefore set up shuls. That would suggest the best alternative is to have both shul and non-shul parts of the kossel. Of course, one can argue that the area that is not immediately adjacent to the kossel is in fact the non-shul area. Of course, there might be some logic in having a part of the kossel that is non-shul so that tourists can go up to the kossel without being in the way of those who are davening. We should welcome tourists as long as they don’t make a pest of themselves.
Given the life and death questions (conscription, hinukh, the Syrians, the Iranians, etc.) facing the Jews of Eretz Yisrael, getting all huffed up about women putting on a tallis seems a bit out of context. Misguided and misinformed avodah is the least of our problems.
Rabbi Lipman has no halachos of a Rov and maybe he should join the army. Or the workforce he would probably make a wonderful businessman.
This rasha was known as such long before he joined the anti-Torah Yesh Atid party.
This guy has been attacking frum Jews for many years already.
I think its high time that this Ner Yisroel graduate, stops masquerading as a “Frum” Jew! He should stick to cleaning the streets!
As a frum and “Chareidi” American Jew living in Eretz Yisrael, I can relate and understand where Rabbi Lipman is coming from. Not one so involved in politics, my question is how can Rabbi Lipman go against or speak against the MK’S of Yahadut HaTorah who are representing the Gedolei Torah.Who are the Gedolei Torah supporting him? I also think that what Rabbi Asher was trying to say was that Rabbi Lipman should not consider himself part of the Israeli Chareidi Camp if he is not listening to the Gedolei Torah associated with this camp!!
she reshaim yirkav
If I remember my history correctly, the kotel did not have a mechitzah until fairly “recently”
#2 simple, by stating such am huratzes that the kosel which is holier than bet hakneses has no din bet hakneses that shows hes no rabbi. see soif mes sukkah
#3 we know very well why they died and this is not 1 of them
In today’s Hebrew Mishpacha newspaper there is a letter from R’ Aharon Feldman (the current Rosh Yeshiva of Ner Yisroel) denouncing Dov Lipman and his shitos. He furthermore states in his letter that Dov doesn’t represent any of the opinions of Ner Yisroel or the late Rosh Yeshiva R’ Yaakov Weinberg even though he keeps claiming to be affiliated with them.
To address the substance of Lipman’s point, it is facile to suggest that because there was no mechitzah it was not under chareidi auspices.
Many smaller kivrei tzaddikim in EY, and other mekomos kedoshim do not have mechitzos because there aren’t enough people regularly there to necessitate it. We don’t believe in absolute separation of the sexes, only when there is a reasonable probability of mingling, such as when mekomos kedoshim become “popular”.
In the 1800s, there weren’t enough mispallelim to necessitate a mechitzah but even early paintings (such as those by Bauernfeind) and the earlier photos from 1890s do show a clear ad-hoc separation of the groups of women and men. In any event, we weren’t even allowed to erect a mechitzah by law until about 1920 when the numbers of mispallelim made it a necessity and they were frequent scuffles with the British police about it (ah! the irony).
Prior to that it was “just” a mokoim tefillah and often not possible to arrange organised davening, by law or in practicalities.
As yes, an unlearned person or one that clearly has no regard for mesorah should not be given the unqualified honorific of Rabbi.
I believe this guy is genuinly interested in Achdus etc. but he doesn’t realize how wrong he is. You can clearly see how he doesn’t make a bit of sense when he says “it doesn’t have a Halacha of a shul”… – what does that mean?! if multitudes of men daven there then in what way isn’t it a shul???
He’s a classic case of an American who thinks the leftists in Israel are like the ignorant in America. He doesn’t see what any Israeli sees so clearly – the real intention of these WOW…
the best way to deal with this is to realize that we need achdus at this time and this is exactly the nissoyon we must pass so that we will be protected.
I love the guy…. American Charedim will bring the much needed change…
No. 9: Did you mean to imply that a frum Jew cannot clean streets? If so, where is that written?
If the halocha is that in place of a permanent minyan, a mechitza is needed … that means the kosel WOULD qualify!
Keep the quotes! I would also keep the quotes when referring to some of these people as “yiddin!”
first of all, i truly enjoyed response #5 and suggest that all the posters read it again before posting. second, we all know that lipman’s political views differ vastly from most chareidim and in that way he is different but i dont think anyone should have the right to trademark and patent “chareidi” as that word should be left to anyone who is a true gd fearing torah jew. at the end of the day, none of us know who falls into that category and who does not. so while lipman is not a typical chareidi no one should judge his level of religious sincerity or observance. if chareidi only meant that you had to subscribe to a certain political and sociological view than many people who dress chareidi and speak chareidi and in their hearts do not believe in gd and commit all sorts of aveyros are also chareidim. i would rather live in a world where chareidi represents a certain level of piety and not a political or sociological agenda.
#22 +1
#9 Street sweeping here is an honorable job, as are the trash truck people. I know many of them are yire shomayim and shomrei mitzvos. Some of the street sweepers are regulars at minha gedolah. As one who has a great deal of stress in my business, I envy the broom operators.
And these jobs pay quite nicely. There are alos many older post avreichim who earn a living cleaning staircases and hallways of buildings. Of course, in certain flavors of charidi, work is treif.
he says he “trembels for the word of Hashem” but dosnt listen to the gedolim not in the USa and not in israel so so me one explain me that?
“benny katz”: what does ‘trembling before HKBH’s words’ have to do with listening to any rabbonim?
The Gedolei Torah are the emissaries of Hashem and litening to them is like listening to dvar Hashem and basics of Judaism-“Veasisa Kechol Asher Yorucha”.
This fellow is very small. The difference between big and small is how you respond to an event. A big person looks at the picture and can look beyond the nuance and appreciate that there is an elephant in the room and deal accordingly. The small person will ignore the elephant. We know that this has nothing to do with serving Hashem and everything to do with feminism and anti-religious activism. Getting all caught up in the minutiae of whether the kotel is a bais medrash or not is totally irrelevant. The same smallness that took brought him to Lapid, brought him here.
I wonder how many people actually watched Rabbi Lipman’s response.
Yes, I saw the video of Lippman, ysv. I will not call him Rav. You know why? זקן שחטא מורידין אותו. ק׳׳ו such a fool.
#29, ysv?? Are you insane? Is this really where we stand in 2013? Someone disagrees with you and suddenly he’s Hitler, Gestapo or the latest villain du jour?
You’re a nut job and I hope you don’t have any children. The world does not need any of your progeny ruining it.
I really hope this post gets accepted because it’s high time comments such as calling people Nazis, or adding YSV after a name stops. This is what happens when we don’t teach proper history or logic. YWN has a responsibility, and now it also has an opportunity to stop this once and for all.
#29, זקן שחטא מורידין
That can apply to almost everyone. How many of your rabbis have admitted to signing things without investigating? How many have done things for kavod?
If that’s still OK by you, then certainly someone who respectfully disagrees with your opinion should get a free pass.
#30 tsharer: #29 chachamhagadol likely has 5 times as many children as yourself. Get used to his progeny running the show. Live with it or move out.
#31: None.
#25 ‘es hashem elokacha tirah…lerabos talmidai chachamim’ ‘moreh rabboch kemoreh samayim’
HaGaon HaRav Ahron Feldman shlit”a just the other day called Mister Lipman a “shona uperish” (someone who learned Torah but then separated/removed himself from it) and a rasha.
Yesterday Rav Aharon Feldman of Ner Yisroel Yeshiva in Baltimore was recoded excoriating Yesh Atid MK Rabbi Dov Lipman calling him amongst other things a “Rasha.” Here is MK Lipman’s response:
I owe so much to Ner Yisrael and want to be clear from the outset that my words are not against the yeshiva. Tremendous damage for me and the yeshiva has been caused by an audio tape in which I am quoted as saying something which I never said and anyone who knows me knows I would never say. I was quoted as saying that “all yeshiva ketanos in Israel should be closed” and then for all intents and purposes I was called a rasha and equated with Amalek and Haman. The following is what I actually have said and what my political party Yesh Atid is working for:
1) The Israeli government should not fund institutions which don’t teach basic math and English. Yeshivos which don’t do so will not be closed down but they won’t receive government funding. It should be pointed out that there are numerous yeshivos which already take zero government money and continue to flourish. Adina Bar Shalom, Rav Ovadiah Yosef’s daughter appeared before the Knesset task force to help Haredim enter the work force which I founded and begged us to implement math and English because 50 percent of the boys in her chareidi college drop out due to their lack of math and English. I meet regularly with chareidi young men who are still completely in the chareidi world and they tell me that the one thing which is necessary is some basic math and English. I believe it is a sound decision for a government to make and look forward to seeing the yeshiva ketanos flourish and continue producing gedolei Torah while teaching basic math and English. Ironically, the basis for my supporting this plan knowing that gedolei Torah can still be produced if general studies are taught is actually Ner Yisrael which produces.
2) Comparing me or anyone in my party to Amalek and Haman who wanted to kill all Jews including “children and women” is simply incomprehensible. We are going to help Chareidim sustain their families – literally feed their children – and we are compared to murderers??? On the spiritual level, we are proposing that 1,800 elite Torah scholars per year be recognized as serving the state and the Jewish people through their Torah study (the first time in history that a government will pay Jewish boys for their learning from a fundamental which says they are providing us with a service), the rest can study Torah uninterrupted until age 21 and then serve in military or national service geared specifically to chareidim and their lifestyle – and we are compared to Amalek and Haman?
3) I would have never joined this party without meeting its leaders first and really understanding who they are and their intentions. The ministers and Knesset members in my party have no hate towards anyone and are not hoping that anyone becomes less religious. Yair Lapid openly declared that the religious side in Israel has shown the secular side that our basis to be in this land is G-d and our Tanach. The driving force behind our policies regarding the Chareidim is to generate unity and most importantly to get Chareidim to the work force. Money will be flowing to programs to help Chareidim get to work. My dream is to see the hi-tech corridors of Raanana, law and accounting firms in Tel Aviv, and government offices in Yerushalayim filled with Chareidim. Most young Chareidi young men are not cut out to learn Torah day and night for their entire lives and this will empower them to be Talmidei Chachamim, Bnei Torah, and also supporting their families with dignity. This will also have an immensely positive effect on Israeli society which will finally see the beautiful values and people in the Chareidi world. My e-mail in-box is filled with letters of support from Chareidim who say they finally see a future for their children – they will remain Chareidi but also not be impoverished. I must also note that our party started the first ever Beis Midrash for Knesset members in the history of the Knesset. Every Tuesday at 3:00p.m. we stop our busy schedules and sit in a committee room and learn Torah together – religious and secular MK’s. Is this a group of people who deserve to be called reshayim, Haman, and Amalek?
I certainly hope the misquote will be acknowledged and that the comparison to Amalek and Haman will be taken back. Misunderstandings happen and can always be corrected.
Let us all learn the lesson of the dangers of the rumor mill and misquotes and let’s work together to strengthen Torah study, the spreading of Torah values, and unity amongst the Jewish people.
please everyone re-read ASH’s comment
until then, consider yourself uneducated.
this has been attested in many history books and memoir literature. the jews actually erected a mechitza quite a few times, only for the british to take it down at the protest of the arabs who claimed it was a sign of jewish control at the site. this actually happened on September 24 1928 on yom kippur, a officer by the name of Dahf (not sure of the spelling) ordered the removal of the mechitza and benches from the kotel. this led to protests from the jews on tisha b’av august 15 1929, (which inderectly led to the massacre of jews in the old city and chevron in 1929) the grand mufti hearing of these protests claimed it was the jews rising up to conquer har habayis (sound familiar?). this can all be found in the book “vayelchu shneyhem yachdav (hebrew) by Rabbi Dov Cohen on pg. 209-212