Reply To: The Killing of Nahal Haredi Soldiers and the Anti Draft Protests

Neville:

1.”MrSarah: You failed the first time to convince people that having hakaras hatov towards soldiers is synonymous with leaving Yeshiva and joining the IDF. What makes you think it’s going to work to restate it?”

I dont think that i ever said anyone should “necessarily” leave Yeshiva. I still do not understand sitting on the sidelines and not sharing communcal responsiblity. I do believe that there should be a certain amount of exemptions (like a poster pointed out they do for others). I do agree i shouldnt repeat my self. Maybe its something about liking the sound of my own voice.

2. “And, again, you keep stating these cases where the state became less anti-yiddishkeit as though they just happened magically or by an unprecedented sign of rachmanus by the chilonim. How can you possibly believe any of that progress would have been made if the chareidim were complacent with the whims of the Zionists like you would want?”

I agree with you. I believe people should advocate for what they believe is right.

As you have pointed out — I do NOT share your point of view about the “chilonim” and I do not share (believe it or not) an “us v. them” mentality. The charedi world in Israel has been able to flourish BECAUSE of the government in the last 40 years not in spite of it. (I dont expect you to agree — but I think the facts are on my side). You are correct that the Charedim have (for the most part) played their political card correctly (with respect to their interests).

I am done with accepting the term Zionist as a derogatory term. What it meant in 1880 is not what it means now — despite your insistence. Believing as I do that the return to Israel of the Jewish People is part of the Jewish destiny — and that the State is playing a role in that — is Zionism. The Zionism of the 19th Century is more or less gone. I would argue (not here, not now), however, that even classical Zionism has a current value — and should be encouraged in those who are not observant. (The Baal Teshuva movement — of which i am a member — is important but statistically very small — and thus keeping others in the fold is crucial).