Rabbi Zushe Horowitz, rav of the Kehillos Chassidim in Elad approved a protest outside the home of a women deemed to have overstepped the communities tznius standards. Several tens of community residents including Rav Horowitz took part in the protest which is part of an ongoing pressure campaign to compel the women to leave the community, Ladaat reports.
After less harsh methods have failed in the past the decision was made to move to the protest, hoping the woman will understand she is requested to leave the community.
(YWN – Israel Desk, Jerusalem)
Join the official YWN WhatsApp status
26 Responses
One of the problems with these standards is what standard it there? Is a long jean skirt considered improper? How about women in pants? If a male were to wear a tshirt with the NY Yankees symble on it, is that improper? It’s difficult to define, as I’ve witnessed women being harassed just for passing by
I wish more rabbonim had the courage of this Rov shlit”a. This is an all too common problem, and these women for the most part face no consequences for their devious behavior.
From what I have heard, ELAD has a few different areas with a slightly diverse kehillos than what this Rav has in mind. Seems like harsh religious coercion!!!
Since this is not being done anonymously, the women can bring a din Torah against their accusers. This will at the least force the accusers to explain their standards, and those accused will end up bring in their rabbanim with their standards. Assuming the summoning Beis Din is reputable, the accusers will be discredited if they don’t respond.
Imagine the reaction if the opposite of this were to happen in a chiloni neighborhood.
akuperma (#4): The Rabbonim shlit”a already brought a Din Torah against the accused. But the accused unfortunately ignored the Din Torah. Therefore these are the consequences of her blithely ignoring Din Torah. Thus it is already in the jurisdiction of a Beis Din. She can always respond to it.
This is a way to make the protesters feel smug and superior, but it is not a way to make these women have warm and fuzzy feelings about Yiddishkeit. Seems to me like misdirected energy. We should be spreading love and light and educating people, not booing them.
#6 – There is no such person as “Rabbonim shlit”a “. There are many “rabbonim shlit”a” – some with kapotes and others with a kipah srugah. Some speak Yiddish at home, and others have grandparents who spoke dialects of Arabic and Spanish.
In any event, it would probably have to be before the women’s rabbonim, not the accusers’. If the women happen to say the follow a rav other than a hareidim one, that’s there right (unless they say they only listen to non-Jewish courts – in which case they are clearly not part of our community). The article did not refer to any proceeding before a Beis Din, but said only a certain Rav authorized a protest – if it was not a daas yachid, it would have said (assuming competent journalism).
The comments to this article are a clear indication of how people so quickly jump to conclusions without justification.
Who amongst you commentators has any idea what this woman is wearing and what her feelings is, let alone her background, etc.!
Without these details there is NO room to judge here!
Perhaps she may be from a Mizrachi background and wearing slightly short jean skirts, short sleeve shirts, and revealing half her hair. Perhaps she grew up this way and feels it is normal. In such case, patience and tact are needed.
On the other hand, perhaps she is a licentious woman who wears mini skirts, wears see through blouses with the top 3 buttons unbuttoned and doesn’t cover her hair. Perhaps she’s well aware that her promiscuous behavior is inappropriate and she does so out of spite in order to taunt the religious community and it’s belief system. If this would be the case how would you feel about it?
To reiterate, without detailed information (which this article grossly lacks) it’s impossible and unfair to come to any conclusions. All of you should rethink about what you say before putting it to print!
#7 well not everyone can be englightened as you are “geulanow”
what should we do despite that or to mitigate that circumstance
What gives anyone the right to make such “standards”. Elad is a public city – anyone i.e. Chiloni, dati leumi, Chareidi or for that matter an Israeli Arab can live there. If one wants to live in a town where one wants to have their standards then they she should set up a private community such as in New Square in NY, otherwise dina dmalchusa applies. Standards one can only set up in a private venue – home, private school, shul etc.
What gives anyone the right to run someone out of town for not complying with his standards?
Being that is an extra orthodox community, they are extra stringent in the shulchan aruch. which is clear about making sure not to embarrass someone publicly – unless the act is over the top and requires public embarrassment… considering this we MUST assume that the community has approached her in private to explain to her how they feel. (she need to conform to the community) just like in america there are laws if you live in a gated community- maybe they don’t want people to be pigion handlers in the gated community-the pigions ruen the cars and make the community ugly) same thing here… the community feels like this particular women is making their “GATED” community ugly… what do you do then??? GD willing there was no agenda set out for this women… only that she (unfortunately-GD forbid) was not modest enough for that “GATED” community- my question is – why didn’t she just leave… why stay where u r not wanted.???
BOGEN, pretty knowledgable about the inyan..
Want to tell us why the woman did not respond to the Beis Din? Did she have a choice of which BD to bring the case to?
Poor woman. She should set up a video camera so if any of these fanatics use violence they can be arrested
#15: The protestors engaged in non-violent protest and she responded violently — which the protestors captured on video and had her arrested for her violence.
If it’s a gated community, then the managing board can evict her for breach of rules. The protests suggest that the managing board doesn’t agree there is a problem.
YWN should get all the facts, and then write the article.
If a man in the same city DOES NOT want to give his wife a get will he be treated the same way as this lady?
Living in a “gated community” may subject the owner of the property to certain rules governing the physical property itself in terms of outside decor, landscaping, maintaining certain colors, window coverings etc. One cannot impose a personal dress code on the owner of the property…EY is still a democratic society with civil laws and this woman is NOT obligated to respond to a din torah or subject herself to the rulings of the beis din. The condo association cannot tell her how long her skirts can be any more than she can petition to have the rav wear clean clothes or shower twice a day. They should simply learn to live with one another and not try to control every aspect of the other’s life.
Reply to No. 13
El’ad is obviously a unique community in terms of having been established to accomodate the needs of the frum community (originally including MO although they are a distinct minority). There was even some broigas years ago when the Sephardeshe and Litvahse rabbonim couldn’t agree on the z’man for licht benchen when the gates to the city should be closed to automobile traffic for shabbos. However, I’m not aware that there is any enforcement mechanism for personal dress when the only issue is the length of the hemline etc. This woman is not tanzin around in a bikini or doing anything outlandish (like raising pigeons).
#5:
Like what? If a chossid were to walk past some soccer-playing, weed-smoking teens wearing only shorts and a tallis kaftan?
ELAD is a city in Israel not a ‘Gated Community’.
#19 Amen.
If chilonim protested outside Charedi residences in Tel Aviv, there would be hand-wringing and cries of anti-semitism galore.
Frankly, these people do more damage to Yiddishkeit than any immodestly-dressed woman ever could.
Too many mysteries here
rkefrat, Israeli is not America and we have differences in the law and how we view life.
There are areas that are all charadi and in these areas non religious are not allowed to purchase apartments. However sometimes people decide to become non observant.
When this happens the community can chose to ignore it or if the behaviour is outlandishly provocative, as I believe in this case, they can try to have the offending person removed. This seems to be the case in Elad, a all observant community.
Will it help? Probably yes…
Thank You Rav Horowitz shlita for standing up for what is right. Even though the uneducated masses may be all up in arms those who value Torah truths and values applaud you.