One of the passengers on last week’s El Al ‘Shabbos in Athens’ flight was Rav Sholom Ber Sorotzkin, the Rosh Yeshiva of the massive Ateres Shlomo network of Yeshivos and Kolellim. Rav Sorotzkin released a letter on Friday addressed the CEO of El Al threatening a boycott on the airline if a full apology by the airline is not issued by Sunday evening.
Rav Sorotzkin’s demands that El Al give an official explanation of what happened on the flight. Should the above not be forthcoming, Rabbi Sorotzkin will begin pushing the entire Charedi community in Israel to use a different airline.
The following is a full translation (done by YWN) of the letter which appears below:
To Our Esteemed Acquaintance, Gonen Ussishkin, CEO of El Al,
Firstly, I wanted to express my gratitude in regard to our very friendly previous meeting. However, to my great pain and embarrassment, a week has passed by wherein observant Jews were accused of complete fabrications that never were.
Moreover, in a situation that would be of great praise to the Sabbath observing community where they deplaned from a flight unplanned, and sanctified the Name of Heaven so publicly to uplift the nation that sanctifies the Sabbath and the Master of the Universe who rested on the Seventh Day from all of His labors, you utilized this incident, which was actually El Al’s fault, and attempted to obscure the matter and cause discord and aspersions among the nation of Israel the Am Segulah.
I wish to inform you, after all of the negotiations and discussions of these past few days regarding the denigration of the Sabbath-observing and traditional community, the following:
If by Sunday evening there will not be a clear apology – free of any clever machinations on the aforementioned affront and a rectification of matters that apply to the aforementioned community, to our sorrow, we would need to announce to our constituency that we should prefer different airline companies. To give preference to companies that, at the very least, do not differentiate between their passengers and do not insult and denigrate that which is precious and honorable to the Am Hashem, and appreciate their fundamentals.
With all the blessings of those that sanctify the Sabbath,
(Rabbi) Sholom Ber Sorotzkin, [Rosh Yeshiva of Yeshivas Ateres Shlomo]
One of the Passengers Aboard the Flight of those who Sanctify the Shabbos
(YWN World Newsroom – NYC)
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44 Responses
And by Sunday evening, we expect the esteemed rav to acknowledge that the Shabbos Sanctifiers took a risk on Shabbos Sanctity..
You’re not pulling wool over our eyes..
Go El Al…..
El Al is in a no-win decision. If they want to operate as a “commercial” airline with no restrictions, they can forego the huge revenues from the Chareidi tzibur in EY and the U.S. Alternatively, to satisfy the demands for strict adherence to halacha will mean they must adhere to their rules which in theory should have never allowed the incident in question to occur. Right now, they seem to be trying to straddle the two with very little success.
if you take a flight so close to shabbat, perhaps teaching others is not the line of work you should pursue; a gambler or a kooten shpiler perhaps.
ZionGate – you are incorrect. The Shomrei Shabbos took a flight that over 99 times out of 100 lands well before Shabbos, with plenty of time to make it home from the airport. You should check with your own Posek, but according to mine (and I’d assume most others), there is not a problem with taking such a flight – Halacha does not obligate someone to take into account something that is a “mi’ut d’mi’ut”. In fact, the passengers specifically took a flight on an airline that commits itself to not flying on Shabbos specifically because of their Kavod for Shabbos, and El Al did not, ultimately, fly these people on Shabbos – though El Al’s subsequent behavior and comments were out-of-line, and the pilot seems to have acted and spoken very inappropriately.
So please – unless you’re a frequent flyer (as I am) or otherwise have reason to know about this situation, perhaps you’re the one who should apologize to the esteemed Rav…
an Israeli Yid
Well said ZionGate!!!
with all due respect rabbi I have no idea why you booked the flight. In my circle its well known not to book a el al flight after the 1:15pm on thursday afternoon from newark.
stop focusing on el al which does not care about anything to do with Judaism and reach out to the nation of Israel to be more careful and cautious and not just “hope”regarding the holy Shabbat
Ziongate, it seems you are ok with the lies the passengers were told on the plane, and then the mockery and slander that they made of the torah Jew instead of takinging responsibility. I hope the same thing happens to you from El Al, that they slander and make a mockery of your family, being the sanctity of Yiddishkeit means nothing to you.
I sincerely hope ElAl do apologise. Its the right thing to do and makes commercial sense.
However, if they don’t, a boycott is going to be impossible to impose. ElAl did make the stop in Athens and arrangements for accomodations and further travel. Yes, their attitude towards the observant customers stinks – but that is an ingrained hatred by the Israeli secular leftists, which is fueled by a vile and hateful media. The fact that they technically did not fly on Shabbos will make a blanket boycott inpossibke to impose.
Are you sure you guys did a good job translating the letter? Shalvi Ber Sorotzkin?
I’m sure they are so scared they called an emergency meeting on Saturday. Not sure why anyone flies that trashy airline. The only airline worse is Air India
With all due respect to the Rosh Yeshiva, I think he should keep a low profile. At the end of the day whatever El Al did or didn’t do or should have have done etc , The Rav and other shomrei shabbos should not have been on that flight. I am hoping that some gedolai Yisroel wll now come out and tell the public what needs to be heard. Getting on a Thursday evening flight in the winter (in particular) is a massive risk to Shemiras shabbos.
Zionflag,
You are clearly an expert on Hilchos Shabbos – more so than the Rosh Yeshiva who flew on this flight, or those on the Vaad who dictate the parameters of when El Al may fly vis a vis Shabbos. Personally, I am no such expert, but I see no reason why it would be problematic to fly at the time that the flight was meant to take off. Of course, 3 hours into their 5-6 hour delay it was a different Din – but if you have been following the story, then you know that they tried to get off but were denied and then tricked into flying. Some people, it would seem, must always blame the victim.
mobico :
You’re not an expert on flying. Check flightstats, ly 002 is on time only 65% of the time. that makes the delay a miut hamatzui. Rabbi Sorotzkin was obviously unaware of this. Or else he knew el al doesn’t fly on shabbos, and didn’t mind if he had to spend shabbos in athens. Assuming, of course, that it would arrive in athens before shabbos.
A yirei shomayim wouldn’t stem fly, that close to shabbos
Whether or not the frum passengers were traveling so close to Shabbos, and I personally do think they were, it is completely irrelevant to the fact that El Al was supposed to take responsibility for their crew arriving late and were absolutely not allowed to spew lies about the Chareidim “being violent”.
I’m glad they are being sued and I hope they will be boycotted. They need to learn a lesson.
which was actually El Al’s fault What a distorted lie!! This is exclusively the fault of people like you!!! who cut corners flying so close to Shabbos. Next time:- Fly during the 1st 1/2 of the week, as per the Halocho, and then you can spend 3 days getting ready for the Holy Shabbos. Don’t you dare boycott El Al. Any boycott, and I shall Davka patronize & fly El Al.
mobico,
You’re right, I’m not an expert on hilchos Shabbos, but I don’t have to be… I’m just an average Joe who sees something wrong with this ultimatum and deflection..
How many times has it been drilled into heads about being extra careful about travelling to a destination before Shabbos. This was not , as someone above writes, a 99 out of a 100 flight. There was a weather issue, flight was advertised on flashing board as delayed, people were still in the gate area , and they took a chance by boarding.
If El Al were the ones who pushed the narrative about violence, then shame on them, it’s inexcusable.
But Rav Sorotzkin , by ballyhooing this…..the El Al issue….. is cleverly, he thinks , deflecting from the Shabbas issue.
So there are 2 issues here… The” violence” issue and the Shabbos issue…. People are trying to conflate the two.
What this will cause is enmity, more polarization, more hate toward frum people.
There is something called the 5th Shulachan Aruch… Sorry to say, it’s non-existent here..
So here’s BIG BOB blathering this to me :
“……..I hope the same thing happens to you from El Al, that they slander and make a mockery of your family, being the sanctity of Yiddishkeit means nothing to you….”
BOB……. You do protest too much… Usually, when this happens, something underneath is going on..
I think , with all due respect, Rav Sorotzkin is looking for the proverbial 15 minutes… His strong references to Shabbos, Sanctity of Shabbos, etc. is a red herring and is going over like a lead balloon.
I for one will continue to fly El Al. Just wondering if the Rabbi will still accept my donations.
Rabbi Sorotzkin is not talking about the flight, he is talking about the attitude. They may be secular Israelis, and many have a negative feeling to the religious, but you don’t show it when you are running a business patronized by religious Jews.
To those few negative comments:
The Rabbi did not say that he is 100% perfect. I am sure that he will never again take that flight again.
He is simply requesting that EL AL explain to the whole world what really happened. A lot of fake news sites are bashing
the Frum world.
I am not a student of this Rabbi, but I still think that his request from EL AL is fair.
I must say I am somewhat impressed. When I saw the headline I thought for sure he would be demanding some kind of payment from El Al which surprisingly he is not. He is simply asking for an apology. Even if you feel that the shomer Shabbos passengers should not have gone on a flight so close to Shabbos his request is not unreasonable.
ZionistGate (#1 comment here) is a known hater of religious Jews, as his many previous comments on this site don’t even attempt to hide.
Rebbe Yid, it may be on time only 65% of the time, but how often is it delayed by more than four hours? Very seldom. And five hours? Even rarer. So the risk of running into Shabbos is very low, certainly low enough that nobody has the right to criticize those who take it, let alone to question their yir’as shomayim or to accuse them of violating halochos that don’t exist.
The poster who sometimes calls himself Joseph is angry because I called him out in the CR trying to slip a hate video in.
I’m not a hater of religious Jews , being one myself, but this poster is known to hate religious Jews who don’t agree with his fanaticisms… Look who’s calling the kettle black…
Millhouse, you are 100% wrong! Leaving on a 13-15 hour trip on Thursday evening (specifically winter) is against Halacha. Ask your local Rabbi even if all goes right landing we’ve Shabbos in Ben Gurion close to Chatzos is wrong. A Rabbi who is (supposed to be) a role model should not do something that puts kedushas Shabbos at Risk. Would he take a flight from NY to TLV that lands 4 hours before his daughters Chuppah?? There’s your answer…
why do so many people spew halachah that they know nothing about?
my wife was delayed 4 hours just getting home Thursday night from the airport to attend a funeral on Friday. Thursday night was not stam a night, there was a partially unexpected storm; anyone flying took a risk and ended up with a beautiful shabbos in Athens, ir ha-not-so-kodesh.
147: “Fly during the 1st 1/2 of the week, as per the Halocho,”
THERE IS NO SUCH HALOCHO. Period. And you know the status of someone who makes up halochos.
“Chuchom”: ” Leaving on a 13-15 hour trip on Thursday evening (specifically winter) is against Halacha.”
No, it is not. As I wrote to 147, you have no right to invent halochos. You can say that you think it’s a bad idea, and others may accept your advice or reject it, but you have no right to say that it’s against halocho.
“Would he take a flight from NY to TLV that lands 4 hours before his daughters Chuppah??” Where it’s from and to is irrelevant. A 15-hour flight is no more subject to delays than a 1-hour flight. The kallah’s parents probably need to be there a day or two early anyway, because they’ve got things they need to do; but if they’ve been told they’re not needed until the chupah MANY MANY people would take flights that get them in 5 hours early or even less than that.
DrYidd, your wife’s experience on the ground is not relevant to this topic; we know the roads were congested, but the air was not. The passengers saw the forecast and made sure to get themselves to the airport on time; there’s no reason the crew could not have done the same. And if they had done, the flight would have taken off on time.
Pilots and crew have certain required minimum rest times between flights. They may not have been able to leave earlier due to these requirements even though there was weather related road traffic delays.
The moderator said they didn’t see any attempt to sneak in a video
but if they’ve been told they’re not needed until the chupah MANY MANY people would take flights that get them in 5 hours early or even less than that.
You live in your own little fantasy world. NOBODY would take a flight that would get them in 5 hours or even less then that. Because if the flight was delayed even if every flight arrives on time they wouldn’t risk missing they’re childs Chuppah.
zion1948
It’s beautiful that you’re being Dan lkaf zchus ElAl and not a Rosh Yeshiva. Really nice.
There is lot of issue confusing here. The R”Y in question – who I do not know – would like El Al to behave with a bare minimum of Derech Eretz. Their behavior in this episode was at the very least disrespectful – and that is without taking into account how much of their business is provided by Shomrei Shabbos.
As far as flying close to Shabbos – this is a Halachic issue. Everyone should ask their own Rav. It should be obvious to all of us that it is not clearly Assur to fly on such a flight. (And it makes it on time well before Shabbos much, much more often than 99% of the time.)
Let us bear in mind that El Al is owned , run , and staffed almost exclusively by Jews, who are connected to Shabbos as much as any of us. Do we not care about their Ruchnius as well? Doesn’t the Vaad that works with them care that they do not operate on Shabbos for their sake also?
No matter one’s feelings, to suggest that a Yid who boarded this flight doesn’t care about Shabbos, or that they gave up any right to be treated as valued persons or customers because they did so, does not come across as logical, caring, or even well reasoned.
I am not competent to comment on either the halachic aspects or the knowledge of flying since I can count the number of times I have flown in my life on two hands, and I would personally not start a long trip, by an means , without much, much certainty that I could, Be”H, arrive before Shabbos.
BUT that is not really the question here, the question is the absolute shecher and purposeful deceit to deflect blame from the powerful company to the powerless consumers.
BUT AHAH! the conumers don’t have to fall for being powerless pawns in an industry that has set out to abuse them as a group.
Instead the consumers can exert their power collectively by organizing a boycott.
I must assume that those who still find it convenient to fly ElAl after this horrid deceit, are in agreement with the defaming of a group of people, or that they really place the value of convenience over the value of the truth.
But really, in these days we are just becoming immune to such, and the psychological stress of living in such a world, and the ease of disseminating hatred and lies at such a level, is something that we all have to fear.
I really wish that for the sake of peace and truth, that the El Al CEO and the Channel 10 executives will get a bit of humility and sincerely apologize for this incident
Whether travelling so close to Shabbos is right or wrong is their personal decision and not for Chareidy haters like Zion etc. to judge. But ELAL both board crew and management press office have clearly and intentionally attacked the entire chareidy community, are lying in the face of hundreds of passengers on the plane and still refuse apologies and and admit their misconduct. – A full boycott in place a. for denying to allow passengers to disemark, b. for tricking them with a blant lie c. for transferring the aircraft on Shabbos, d. for defaming chareidim with blant lies in the media, amongst the various other misdeeds.
If people only knew the backround of said r/yeshiva they wouldn’t be at all surprised of his bullish tactics. Hamavin yavin.
There are a few issues:
Those who wrote that everyone should ask his own Posek about travelling close to Shabbos are absolutely correct. The reason for travelling and the availability of other options for the individual are relevant to the p’sak the questioner will receive. That being said: There are numerous cases of delayed travel leading observant Jews to Chilul Shabbos and/or challenging situations. Everyone must learn from the frequent mishaps.
I think that the “power of the purse” should be used to punish – yes punish – ElAl for denigrating the observant passengers – unless they make amends. ElAl handled the situation very badly and they must accept responsibility for doing so. That is the first step in correcting the situation. Many observant Jews have, co-workers, friends, and acquaintances in the non-Observant and non-Jewish communities. The Observant community carries enormous economic weight. It should be used wisely.
My wife and I (frequent ElAL flyers) flew from Israel to the USA on Halloween this year. Halloween is a pagan event. Not only do observant Jews find Halloween inappropriate, but religious non-Jews do as well. These two groups are a very large part of ElAl’s customer base. The crew were dressed as witches and devils, and (I believe it was) the captain wished everyone “Chag Sameach”. ElAl must focus on their image. I want ElAl and all of our bothers and sisters (religious and not yet religious) to succeed. ElAl must focus on all elements of customer service.
!- the crew arrived two hours late.
2- after everyone finally boarded it took another few hours before the plane was ready to take off.
3- at this point the shomrei Shabbat realized it was too late and asked the pilot to let them off the plane.
4- he told them he received permission to do this and would taxi down the runway to where they could unboard.
5- he lied and took off.
Perhaps he should be arrested for kidnapping?
Chochom, you invent halochos, and now you invent stam fantasies. You cannot possibly be unaware that literally every day people board planes in the morning for important business meetings in the late morning or the afternoon. They leave perhaps an hour for emergencies but certainly not 5 hours. Nobody, but nobody worries about delays of longer than 5 hours. It’s such an unusual event for a flight to be more than 5 hours late that it makes no sense to provide for it. If you worry about that, then why not 10 hours, or 15? Pretty soon you’ve lost half the week, like 147’s imaginary halocho that it’s forbidden to fly at all from Tuesday night!
So, nu? It is Sunday night in Israel now. Any updates?
Wow! Godolhadorah, for once I actually agree with you.
Amazing how many commentators that have no clue in Halacha (yes, they wouldn’t know where in the world to even start looking up the halacha) have become experts on when one is allowed to travel…
FYI – the flight did not violate any standards of halachik requirements of when one is supposed to halt any traveling Erev Shabbos. The scheduled flight would have arrived prior to Chatzos (or more precise prior to the shiur of ג’ פרסאות, for all experts see OC siman 349:1) even with considering the norm delayes.
On top of that, they did have the option of staying aboard once it was determined that won’t make it on time..
“Check flightstats, ly 002 is on time only 65% of the time. that makes the delay a miut hamatzui. ”
Another dly by
Amazing how many commentators that have no clue in Halacha (yes, they wouldn’t know where in the world to even start looking up the halacha) have become experts on when one is allowed to travel…
FYI – the flight did not violate any standards of halachik requirements of when one is supposed to halt any traveling Erev Shabbos. The scheduled flight would have arrived prior to Chatzos (or more precise prior to the shiur of ג’ פרסאות, for all experts see OC siman 349:1) even with considering the norm delayes.
On top of that, they did have the option of staying aboard once it was determined that won’t make it on time..
“Check flightstats, ly 002 is on time only 65% of the time. that makes the delay a miut hamatzui. ”
Another flawed stat that is irrelevant to halacha, “not on time” does not equal to being five hrs delayed, it means an hr tops. So even with taking that in consideration they would have had plenty of time.
Also, I’m sure Rav Sorortzkin who flies enough, more knowledgable than any of you commentators and, responsible enough etc. would never have taken the flight had it been against the halacha.