As the ink on the coalition agreements dries, it is too premature to know how this will play out but according to information released to the media, few chareidim will be permitted to declare limud Torah as their profession to continue in beis medrash as has been the case for over 65 years, since the establishment of the state in 1948.
While Likud/Beitenu months earlier released messages of calm and reassurance to the chareidi tzibur, at the end of the day, the coalition demands, the need to sign a deal with Naftali Bennett and Yair Lapid won out. The agreements reportedly say that draft eligible chareidim, ages 18-21, will also be serving in combat units; at least 1,600 annually will be directed to fighting units. There will of course be additional programs catered to the chareidim, as well as the new Nachal Chareidi brigade.
1,800 bnei Torah will be declared “masmidim” and they will be permitted to continue their Torah study. The IDF will have first priority to select how many inductees it feels it requires and the others will be permitted to enter a state-approved national service program. The 1,800 masmidim will have to declare they plan to continue their Torah study until at least age 26. They will then be free from the draft and earn a large stipend from the government during their years of limud Torah.
Interestingly, perhaps to show a sensitivity to the yeshiva world, the agreement relating to the drafting of chareidim, the ‘sharing the burden’ begins by explaining that with the creation of the state, as the Homeland was built on the ashes of the horrors of the Holocaust, the bnei yeshivos were permitted to continue studying as efforts were made to salvage the Torah world that was destroyed in the gas chambers. Now however, after the Torah world was rehabilitated, the situation is a different one, hence the share the burden law.
The state plans to build a rigid system of monitoring and enforcement to compel those eligible for draft to serve and to make certain those learning are doing just that. In 2014, the IDF plans to open a new base for chareidi inductees. In 2015, the compulsory IDF service will gradually be reduced from the current three years to two. Certain positions will however compel longer service for those wishing to do so. These soldiers will be rewarded with handsome educational grants upon their release.
Yesh Atid will head the special vaad which is responsible to submit the draft law within 45 days to seal the new regulations into the law books. The vaad will include at least one cabinet minister from each of the coalition parties. The new sharing the burden law is a pressing issue for the new coalition and it was agreed that the new law must be passed before the state budget.
(YWN – Israel Desk, Jerusalem)
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27 Responses
” after the Torah world was rehabilitated, the situation is a different one, hence the share the burden law”.
There were voices of Rabbanim who did feel that it was an ‘action of the hour’ to establish kollelim and initiate full time learning to replenish the holy martyrs from WW II.
WRONG. NOT EVEN CLOSE.
They can threaten to throw people in jail, or to close down yeshiva, or they can raise high fines in hopes of bankrupting the (pennniless) students or forcing the yeshiva to pay a modern version of the “Fiscus Judaicus” to stay in business). However it is unlikely that anywhere’s near the numbers will happily march off to the army. It is guaranteed that the anti-zionist ones (who never accepted government money to begin with) will not think twice about refusing, and many of the rest will join.
Their sanctions pose dubious problems. One idea is to deny civil rights to yeshiva students who don’t enlist (i.e. allow yuppies from North Tel Aviv who evade the army to go to India to relax, but deny passports if a yeshiva students wants to learn overseas). Another is to cut welfare states benefits (so the wife of a terrorist gets child allowances, but not a kollel wife). Will they really start banning yeshiva families from getting medical care in Israel’s socialist system? Most of these sanctions will be politically hard to enforce, violate Israel’s equal protection laws, and violate international human rights – and make the Israelis look silly.
The hilonim believe the yeshiva boys will toss their gemaras, march off to war, and come back with a kippah srugah or bareheaded. They are wrong. What will happen is that the hareidim will threaten to ally with the left wing parties undermining the right-wing bloc that had a lock on the kenesset for 30 years – so much that the elections were usually between different factions of Likud and its spinoffs. Likud doesn’t want that to happen. Bayit Yehudi will collapse since who will support a religious party that (unlike Likud) advocates closing yeshivos and risking the settlements through dubious political alliances.
The only question is whether the idea will collapse fast enough to avoid major disruption, or will end with a Hareidi-Labor-Arab coalition coming to power and ending conscription for everyone. Ironically, ending conscription will eliminate a reason many hareidim are nominally in yeshiva and free them for on the book jobs, and result in a much more effective military (though in all fairness, combat units have no trouble attracting volunteers, suggesting conscription isn’t needed).
“begins by explaining that with the creation of the state, as the Homeland was built on the ashes of the horrors of the Holocaust, the bnei yeshivos were permitted to continue studying as efforts were made to salvage the Torah world that was destroyed in the gas chambers”
If the Hareidim ahd objected loudly to Israeli independence, the liklihood is that the alternative, favored by the British and the American State Department would have come into effect – an Israel today would be the “Commonwealth of Palestine”, and probably would a single non-voting representative in the American Congress (similar to Puerto Rico, and most of the other Trust Territories that chose to tay affiliated with the US).
Ignore the hysterics in this article and most of the charedi media. The deal actually is follows:
1,800 (out of 7,000 bochurim that turn 18 every year, about 25%) will be exempt.
Age of giyus will be 21, not 18.
No criminal sanctions – only financial penalties for those that don’t serve and incentives for those that do.
And most importantly, at 21 they can legally work without serving.
People that aren’t interested in learning full time will be able to support their families now.
All three parties seriously compromised their positions – at the last minute of course.
Which 1800 – your son or mine? Sefardi or Ashkenzi? Satmar or Litvish? A lottery? Protectsia? Sounds like the “Cantonist” system.
“Financial penalities” – to be paid by whom – last I check most yeshiva boys, and yeshivas, were penniless — you mean a tax on money raised abroad . What if they refuse to pay, or can’t pay.
Are they offering to eliminate all law restricting Hareidi non-veterans from working? Meaning anyone over 21 who hasn’t been drafted will be permanently exempt from conscription?
What happens to those who refuse to report, as many will? Certainly anyone supporting Eidis hareidi will refuse? Will then then be exempted, or prosecuted?
Expect a few months, or years of hysterics, until the zionists finally realized they shot themselves in the foot, and will be forced to end consciption.
It’s not clear how the Chareidi world will respond here. Some basic facts the plan will reduce the draft from three years to two. Basically this law claims that by drafting the Chareidim, the army can reduce conscription by a third for all. Not seeing this thru, will lead to even more hatred against the Hareidim by people who will believe that they are serving an extra year because the Chareidim are not serving.
AKUPERMA!!Stop it already! No country would put up with the systen that existed till now! It is not an inborn, unalienable right of every Chareidi to learn forever in kollel on the money squeezed out of the unwilling population and never be bothered with anything!
There is no way that they could force yeshiva students to join this secular army. We frum yidden here in america can stop the draft. We will outvote all the pro israel politicians from schumer to nadler and stop the american aid. Also why don’t they draft the arabs or cut their support. Why is there an arab judge in the supreme court and no charedi one. Why should a frum yeshiva boy fight for a government that hates them.
Actually, almost all countries routinely exempted hareidim until recently. In fact we weren’t even allowed to enlist (that what the “right to bear arms meant”). We paid them a tax, and we were forever exempt from military service. In fact, most democratic (small D) countries don’t draft people who have religious objections to military service.
As for jobs, most hareidim in Israel are gainfully employed. The Israelis consider all Bnei Yeshiva to be unemployed, but in fact, any who are receiving something more than tuition-waiver and “room and board” should be considered employed, just as university students and professors are considered employed. The fact is the yeshivas have been a major industry and bring hundred of millions of dollars into the Israeli economy (as any American parent who sent their kids knows too well). There is also plenty of evidence that many yeshiva students engage in economic activity as part of the grey economy, and if the government were to abolish conscription these “students” would be instantly employed.
So ignore the zionist propaganda about us. It is no more worthy of being taken seriously than Striecher’s (and if Israel ever decided that crude bigotry is a crime, much of the zionist media would be in jail).
“One idea is to deny civil rights to yeshiva students who don’t enlist (i.e. allow yuppies from North Tel Aviv who evade the army to go to India to relax, but deny passports if a yeshiva students wants to learn overseas).”
A few questions if I may, please, akuperma:
1. Whose idea is that? If the idea did not stem directly from you (which is the likeliest probability).
2. Do ALL “yuppies” have their homes exclusively in North Tel Aviv?
3. What (documented, of course) examples can you provide of any yeshiva student being denied a passport merely because he was a yeshiva student? You have very conveniently forgotten to tell your readers that all Israelis liable for conscription are under restrictions with regad to overseas travel. Each case is considered on its merits.
Half truths, such as the ones you propagate here on an almost daily basis, were the trade mark of the propaganda machine of a certain European country in the 1930s and the first half of the 1940s.
‘If the Hareidim ahd objected loudly to Israeli independence, the liklihood is that the alternative, favored by the British and the American State Department would have come into effect – an Israel today would be the “Commonwealth of Palestine”’
And almost no Jews would be living there.
So, all the haredim should hide behind their gemorahs? Chas vesholom, haredim should do something for the whole clal Isroel and not only for interest of their own. The serving in the army must me for all citizens regardless of their religious levels. Non haredi blood is no different, and when haredim want to go to kvorim, like Kever Rochel etc, they are protected by IDF soldiers. It’s time for Haredi leadership to do the right thing, and don’t make a big deal. Because by fighting this you will get more hatred from people who not anitiharedi and create a huge Hillul Hashem, and that will delay coming of Mashiach even further. And for holy tzadikim like Akuperma and Heshy Friedman I have a question. Is your rabbi potur you to be on the internet all day long? Don’t you think it’s better for tzadikim like you to learn instead? Didn’t the same rabbeim who against the draft are against using the internet (but you seem to miss that part)? Stop your daily negative propaganda against state of Israel, and get a life! And Mr Friedman, your empty talk about forcing out pro Israeli politicians make me laught, and actually it’s clear that you don’t know anything and your words are emty.
My analysis of what the hilonim are talking about come from YNET, Times of Israel, JPOST, Arutz Sheva and Globes – including what hiloni are saying on their websites.
“Yuppies” in North Tel Aviv is a stereotype. Just as people living in mid-Manhattan or the Five Towns on Long Island are typically affluent, North Tel Aviv is the best known upper class area of Israel.
As I’ve been saying, all the sanctions they discuss run into serious legal and political obstacles. If applied only to Hareidim, but not other people who avoid army service, they violate equal protection (Israel has that as well) as well as international human rights treaties protecting religious minorities. Many will be ineffective (fines for those without income or assets can only be enforced by prison).
Politically, the ruling right will alienate the hareidim and cause them to ally with the left in a pro-welfare state alliance that will favor abolition of conscription. Polls suggest that Israeli public opinion wants to reduce welfare spending that is caused by hareidim having low income, and that is more important than getting hareidim into the army – and that can be best accomplished by ending conscription meaning all hareidim could take real jobs without getting drafted – and while the Jews of Eretz Yisrael were always more into learning than their disapora cousins, even in Israel most would prefer to take jobs once they have serious family responsibilities (which they can’t do legally at present).
This seal will only start in 4 years, by then, this goverment will be in the history books, the new goverment not headed by Bibi will overwrite all these laws
I think mosiach will come soon, maybe even today and this goverment will joining the ranks of amalek
The vaad will be led by bayit yehidi. Who told moshiachnow it is 1800per year. I think it is 1800 at one time. Meaning every 8 years.
So the secular government would like yeshiva boys to give up learning and become modernized and delay marriage while arabs are all working having four wives,cause security problems all the time and have arabs in the kennesset as well as supreme court. Arab murderers are let out every few years in exchange of israeli kidnapped soldiers and suicide bombers families still get government funding but yeshiva students are going to be drained of any support. Israeli seculars lacked no money throwing out three million dollars in overtime costs to protect 1500 gays marching in jerusalem. For that they have money. Selling pork and allowing tattoo shops is what they want yeshiva boys to die for. Every chareidi should avoid the army and those there should drop out in protest. You get zero benefits in the army other than hearing women sing and get bullied for being frum.
Hello Mr. akuperma, maybe the anti zionist crowd should have voted and therefore giving the Chareidi party more seats and therefore more leverage to stop this mess.. The anti zionists are enablers to this whole thing by not being citizens and not voting.. so you really have no right to talk.
The only solution to this is to eliminate the draft. Any attempt to force Torah Jews into the Army will lead to bloodshed.
Furthermore the type of sanctions proposed are clearly in the category of religious persecution and constitute a crime against humanity. That means that under international law the Torah community is justified in using deadly force to protect itself against Government persecution.
In the 1950s, when there was an attempt to force religious girls into the Army, MK Rabbi Poresh OBM, stood up in the Knesset and told them that if you come to take our daughters we will meet you with our gun and we will kill you.
The low life tugs and gangsters that were in the Knesset then understood no other language. Let us hope the vermin infesting the Knesset today are a bit smarter.
Aryeh Zelasko
Beit Shemesh
Don’t worry. The refuah is before the makeh. This coalition is going to fall apart before the plan goes into practice.
I am glad some people are finally speaking up to akuperma and pointing out his/her fallicies.
Perhaps he/she is someone with a son who is of that age (or is a person that age) and is simply afraid to go into the IDF.
“U’mi ha’ish hayarei v’rach ha’leivov, yaleich v’yashov l’baiso…”
Stay home. As you pointed out numerous times, the IDF doesn’t need you. You won’t go to jail. And the rest of the world could care less about the so-called “human rights violations” you have writtin about ad-nauseam.
alexfromsays
And for holy tzadikim like Akuperma and Heshy Friedman I have a question. Is your rabbi potur you to be on the internet all day long? Don’t you think it’s better for tzadikim like you to learn instead? Didn’t the same rabbeim who against the draft are against using the internet (but you seem to miss that part)?
wretched hypocrite.
You don’t believe in listening to rabbis.
it’s you they want off the computer,
Akuperma and Heshy Friedman they prefer on to stop the brainwashing
Yanky55 says
“U’mi ha’ish hayarei v’rach ha’leivov, yaleich v’yashov l’baiso…”
Good. You support those who violate every other pasuk in the Torah and would be prohibited from serving in a Torah army. We’ll debate this pasuk after you do teshuva
Yanky55: Any sane person should be afraid of going into the army. An army is where you go to kill or be killed. Only an idiot would not be afraid – and most armies generally reject such persons as unfit for duty. The only people who think of thye military as glorious fun have never been in one.
However unlike goyim, Jews survive by doing Mitsvos. That is our job. But for our mitsvos the world would collapse into “to-hu v’vo-hu”. Farmers grow food. Doctors heal the sick. Parents make and care for children. Jew learn Torah and do Mitsvos.
Torah and mitsvos are to Jews who food and drink are to the normal people. Would you advocate giving up food and water for several years?
And the above doesn’t take into account that the conscription of hareidim is not motivated by a desire to enhance the Israeli military (which isn’t thrilled with the idea), but is rather putting the Israeli military at risk in order to persecute the hareidim (very similar to the Germans in World War II who pursued a policy of anti-semitism that their army objected to and and in the end played a major role in their defeat – but persecution of Jews was a higher priority than military necessity). The truth, is that if you were concerned with the survival of Medinat Yisrael as a zionist state, you would favor abolishing conscription and relying on a highly motivated professional military – but that is clearly not the priority for the Netanyahu-Lapid-Bennett-Livni coalition.
Just one question; everybody who is against bochurim for sitting and learning and supporting the medina with learning which Hashem wants; are they willing to give up birth control and have more children to help the medina grow in numbers and help make more soldiers for the army. If you are not willing to do this with you money why should yeshiva guys go to the army with their money [money=time].I have many Mizrachi friends and more than 80% want to limited their family size. Every child in Israel is important for population growth. One question check out and see how many woman soldiers have abortions each year. You will be surprise by the numbers
So HKB”H, then, was referring only to insane people when He stated that pasuk? He could not have been talking to sane people, b/c according to you, akuperma, no sane person is unafraid to go to war.
The fact is that most young men in HS are proud to serve in the IDF to protect their country. They are NOT afraid. Did you know that hundreds of HS seniors signed a petition stating that if captured C”V, the govt should NOT release hundreds of prisoners to get them back? That sound like scared people to you? Sounds to me like bravery at it’s best.
“Glorious fun”? How many have described the IDF to YOU as such? How many young men do you PERSONALLY know that were or are in the IDF? I would venture to say the number is about zero.
Please stop already with your false allegations.
Furthermore…..clearly, HKB”H did not know that Jews are not supposed to fight. They are supposed to learn and do mitzvos only in order to survive. Maybe He thought they were goyim??
There have been over a million abortions in the first 25 years of the israeli medinah. A female soldier is entitled to three free abortions. These atheistic bums have destroyed a whole generation of young jews with their secular public schools. Even olmarts sons ran away from israel to avoid the draft. The army is run by heretics who care little about the physical being of their soldiers,let alone their spirtual. Only an irresponsible parent would send their kid to the israeli army.your kids will fight in the front so that the gays can march all over israeli cities,eat pork and now also legally cremate dead jewish bodies.
“There have been over a million abortions in the first 25 years of the israeli medinah. A female soldier is entitled to three free abortions.”
Ribono shel olam, this old chestnut again!
It might be difficult for you to provide “chapter and verse” to substantiate your nonsense about “over a million abortions in the first 25 years of the israeli medinah”, but it would substantially add to your credibility if you were to provide such a reference.
As for telling us that “a female soldier is entitled to three free abortions” that could only have come from the keyboard of a latter-day Julius Streicher ym”s. Assuming that you are a charedi Jew, whatever motivates you to write such filth? What purpose did you think it would serve?
As for the rest of your anti-Semitic and anti-Israeli rubbish I can only remind you that one day, sooner or later, you will have to answer to your Maker and to justify publishing such arrant madness.