Dear YWN,
With the political campaigns starting to heat up, I wanted to bring to the forum something that troubles me about some frum people’s political leanings.
As religious Jews, I would think it would behoove us to try and support politicians that represent conservative values. Whether abortion, immoral marriages, and all of the other “party line” issues, I would think that the orthodox vote would be 99% in favor of Republicans. However it seems this is not the case. Many people get benefits and government handouts from the more socialist leaning Democrat Party, as they tend to tax the rich and give to the poor. While I’m sure it is tempting, and maybe even necessary to try to ensure oneself with some “freebies” from the government, I’m afraid that the money association with Liberals, eventually influences people in the form of their ideals. Someone even commented to me that Spitzer shouldn’t resign because, after all, “it’s a personal matter.” Is this not morally corrupt- to not demand that our politicians (at least in the public) be upstanding individuals!?
I would hope that all of those people planning to vote for Democrats sincerely know how to separate their social standards from their extra money. However, shoichad ya’aver einei chachomin” and many people should think about voting for what represents their hashkofos, and show that as a group, Orthodox Jews do not condone Liberal morals. I would like to hear what your readers think about this, and how they think one should vote.
Thank you for an excellent Website,
A Frum Voter.
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18 Responses
very well said!
I couldn’t have said it better myself.
I think it’s a little more subtle than that, and there are other points to consider, as well.
As far as “family values” and other secular niceties, remember that they are NOT “Torah values”, though some may and some may not happen to be in line with Torah values, so just because they are the values of conservatives does not mean you are voting for Torah when you vote conservative.
For example, abortion is not as black-and-white, lihalacha, as, some non-Jews hold it to be.
I believe that the conventional wisdom of Jews voting liberal (which is true of wealthy Jews not known for their religious observance, not the general public) comes from earlier days when the fears of “anti-semitism” were much greater, and people feared the “religious right-wing”, and so they voted liberal, which are people who are, generally, not all that religious. So since we are in galus, it is a reasonable position to take, IMHO, despite America’s tolerance and benevolence.
THANK YOU, Frum Voter!!!
to number 3 u might want to explain in the future your legal terms, as you used sare decisis and for those who dont know that means legal precedents or past rulings
Well put. I would venture to say that by and large, with a few exceptions, frum voters strongly vote Republican/conservative. The few exceptions are about as prevelent as the non-religous Jews who vote on the right (as by and large the non-Orthodox vote Democrat/liberal with a few exceptions.)
#3 – May I respectfully disagree with you. It is a well known fact that the atmosphere of the street filters down to our homes and neighborhoods as well. The liberals policies of not only abortion, but also “civil unions”, marriages of toeiva, media filled with violence and worse, etc. etc. has had a terrible effect on the entire country. And, when you vote Democratic, you vote to perpetuate this and even make it even more immoral (if this world can get worse.) Money comes from Hashem and so does security for E”Y. But it is up to us to do our best to keep our country as morally upright as we can so that our homes can stay as safe from shmutz as we can keep them.
#9 – I wish that you were right. But here in Lakewood, the “vaad” endorsed JOn Corzine – the liberal sheb’liberals – for governor. What was that all about? I know many people did not even go to the polls that time because they could not imagine voting for such a person. And what about HIlary Clinton’s campaign party in Lakewood …???
You’re right, the amch of Klal Yisroel does vote conservative, but the “asknim” sometimes get blinded by influence and money. Where is the daas torah in this situation???
illini – I consider it disgraceful for you to question if modern orthodox jews are frum or not (or whether I consider them as such.) They do not need to be qualified as frum any more than you do.
Secondly, I would venture to say even MO Jews strongly vote Republican/conservative (even though you don’t.)
HGH”K Rav Avigdor Miller ZY”A made it abundantly clear years ago that it is ASSUR to vote for a candidate who supports chukei toieva in any form. For that reason many frum jews vote republican, because as a whole their morality is closer to our’s.
#13 – Daas Torah cannot endorse anyone, just in case the other side wins….. Everyone has to use their saychel!
I heard that R’ Avigdor Miller held that one should vote Republican for the reasons mentioned by #10
I own a tape on which Rav Avigdor Miller, ZT”L, says plainly that all Jews shoul vote conservative Republican, because the Democrat party officially supports Toeva and abortion, while the Republican party officially takes the opposite position.
Yes, there are exceptions, but these are the official party positions, and when you join the party, you are officially endorsing their platform, unless you make it crystal clear that you don’t.
Just try to become a leader among the Democrats without supporting these positions.
Look at what happened to Sheldon Silver and Dov Hikind, who are personally Orthodox Jews, but who are overtly or covertly trying to appease the MushChaSim in their Democrat party, in order to further their political careers.
Considering the hypocrisy displayed by a great deal of Republican politicians, I would never equate voting for them with voting for the more moral party! and #17, my impression is that illini07 was not personally questioning whether the modern orthodox are frum. He seemed to be commenting that, unfortunately a great deal of the posters on this website tend to do so.
for the democrats:
who exactly you planning on voting for?
1. Hilary- a smart woman, has some form of experience, yet do you think she knows how to run a country(she never even served in the army)?
2. Obama- an antisemite, his whole campaign is from Carter-who im sure all of you know is an antisemite himself. another thing exactly what experience does Obama have to serve as the leader of America?
not that i think McCain is the #1 choice for president, but no smart person would want to run America in the state its in now. but anythings better than the democrats!
Even though we live in E”Y, my husband and I do vote in American Presidential elections. We vote republican basically for all the reasons stated above. But please, let’s not conflate the Republican party with emes and Torahdik hashkafas.Firstly, they have their fair share of scandals and immoral practices, all politicians do and the problem is not likely to go away any time soon. Also, last I checked, there are no Torah sources that say that being a republican is the emesdik, torah way while being a democrat is heresy. There is no halacha that one must vote for a certain party. Let’s not forget that it was democrats who ended the intolerable situation whereby workplaces would fire those who refused to work on Shabbos, and ended the “blue laws”, which stipulated that businesses must be closed on Sundays (which was detrimental to Jews, as this forced them to keep the store closed for an extra day). True, at this time, the republicans seem to be the more “heimishe” party, and that is why most frum Jews, myself included, will vote for them. But it wasn’t always that way, and we cannot rely on it to continue forever, they are goyim to whom the Torah and Klal Yisrael mean nothing, and even if their values are more wholesome, they are not representative of HKBH or the Torah. They make mistakes, and implement bad, or even immoral policies too. We mustn’t disparage those who do lean more democratic, for the democrats are not incarnate evil any more than republicans are the ultimate good. I know many frum Jews in America who are very fed up with Bush and the big disaster he created in Iraq. Who are we to tell them that they must vote for a party they are fed up with? Since when is political affiliation a yardstick of frumkeit? (I refer specifically to American politics- in E”Y the situation is different) Only HKBH and His Torah are eternal and emes; the politicians, including the republicans, are self-interested and looking for cheap votes. They are but pawns in HKBH’s master plans.
The liberals may not believe in legislating personal morals. However they have no qualms about legislating immorals that can trespass over my beliefs
#28, illini07- your other posts were very informative and eloquent, but I think you are grossly mistaken with saying that a Rav is for your own matters of spiritual observance, while voting you’ll decide for yourself. The Rav, whomever he may be, as your spiritual guide is going to tell you if and how something partains to your spiritual growth or decline. If your Rav (and I think it is only right that you should ask him- he can say either way) should say that voting is something that effects spiritual observance, then even according to your reasoning it would be appropriate to ask him. In general (I think), most parts of our daily lives effect our spiritual observance, one way or the other- it’s the Rabbis whom we need to point out to us what effects us and how. Also, as elected officials effect the Jewish nation as a whole, then we should look to the rabbis’ guidance pertainting to matters of the Jewish people as a whole. Voting isn’t only about the individual.
#30- can you explain what exactly is wrong with the way America is now? The economy isn’t run by the government, and neither is gas prices (which democrats if anything would cause to go up with their environmental policies). We already know the two sides of the Iraq argument, so what exactly is messed up about the country that you think a new politician can fix based on his/her platform? (I hope you’re not for socialized medicine)