The following letter written by ZAKA founder and head Yehuda Meshi-Yahav to his late uncle, HaGaon HaRav Amram Blau ZT”L, leader of the Neturei Karta. It was published in Makor Rishon.
In honor of my dear uncle Rabbi Amram Blau ZT”L, leader of Neturei Karta,
When I was young, I was a small soldier in the campaign, when I joined the demonstrations you were leading – whether it was every Saturday in demonstrations against Chilul Shabbos, or in the middle of the week against any other breach. You were for me the figure of the general, the leader, the fearless and uncompromising fighter for the principles of Judaism. I remember how we stood amazed each time anew by the blows you’d get lovingly from the police, or when you were arrested again and again. We grew up with your stories of heroism, such as putting your head in the Edison Cinema ticket window in Jerusalem to prevent chilul Shabbos, when you were beaten with clubs until you lost consciousness.
On your knees I grew up and was raised. From your mouth we have heard again and again about the great danger inherent in the Zionist state, to the extent that you have often asked to cross the border and to protect the shadow of the Kingdom of Jordan. We heard about the decrees of annihilation of the Zionist regime, whose sole purpose was to transfer the Jewish people to its religion and faith. We heard your warnings that within a few years there would be no remnant or refugee from the people of Israel. I remember from you that the Zionists are the greatest haters of the Jewish people in the world, worse than the Greeks who came to Israel, to destroy the people of Israel.
In your many sermons at public meetings, I was shocked by stories about various events during the campaign of destruction waged by the Zionist regime. “Cantonist decrees” you called them. You said that the Zionists are guilty of all the troubles of the people of Israel, including the terrible holocaust.
As I grew older, with the fervor of faith in your method and on your way, I was also involved in organizing demonstrations and protests. I was arrested countless times, and my bones were crushed by the beatings of the “Zionist soldiers.” But you have taught us that every red sign in the body from these blows is another level and a citation in the lofty ranks of “self-sacrifice,” and therefore we did not feel the pain either.
Today, after 70 years of a Zionist state, we are happy to inform you, my dear uncle, that your fears have been proven false: We have a wonderful Jewish-Zionist state that serves as a model for all the countries of the world, Education, health, immigrant absorption, and Judaism – about 7 million Jews – over fifty percent of the Jewish people – already live in the State of Israel, and in Jerusalem alone we are approaching one million residents, which is not certain even during the time of the Beis Hamikdash.
Who would have believed that 73 years after the terrible Holocaust, when the people of Israel were almost extinct, and there was hardly any trace of Torah and Chasidism, we would have a Jewish state of our own. The State of Israel. A state in which the world of Torah will reach a prosperity unparalleled in the history of the Jewish people. Since Melech Chizkiyahu, there has not been so much Torah study in the Land of Israel as it is today, and you will be surprised to hear who is the greatest Torah scholar in the world: the Zionist regime. Every year the Israeli government invests billions of shekels in the Torah world.
It is hard to believe that only 75 years ago, not hundreds of years ago, a Jew could not find a way out. No one wanted us. We were the lowest and most despicable people, we rolled between the death camps and the forests of Europe as animals in a daily struggle for survival. At the end of the terrible war, every refugee returned to his home, but the Jews were the only ones in the world who had nowhere to go, neither home nor country. Until the establishment of the State of Israel. Thousands of generations of Jews dreamed of a state, and here we have won what many did not. The State of Israel arose and was against all odds.
Rav Amram, the leader of Neturei Karta, see that in the Zionist state of destruction 73 percent of the citizens light Chanukah candles, 78 percent fast on Yom Kippur, and each year over 200,000 people take part in the last Slichos. How much you had to fight for every road and road in the ultra-Orthodox neighborhoods, to have them shut on Shabbos. Today it is hard to believe that even Meah Shearim Street and Kikar Shabbos were closed only after countless demonstrations that you led. On the 70th anniversary of the Zionist state, there are seven cities, headed by a chareidi representative, whose roads are hermetically closed on Shabbos and Yomim Tovim. In other cities, in neighborhoods where chareidim live, the closing of roads on Shabbos is taken for granted and you no longer have to fight for this.
The anthem of Neturei Karta, which we would sing loudly at the demonstrations, said that “we do not believe in the rule of the infidels, and we do not participate in their laws. We would get beaten up and even arrested, and we were sure that we were MeKadesh Shem Shomayim”. And here, in the Zionist state, the degree of “devotion” reached the highest place, such as who constitutes the symbol of self-sacrifice, the Divine Tanna Rabbi Akiva. Nearly 24,000 IDF soldiers were killed when they gave their lives for the sake of sanctifying G-d’s name and defending the State of Israel and the Jewish people.
The anthem of Neturei Karta, which we would sing loudly at the demonstrations, said that “we do not believe in the rule of the infidels”, if you knew what wonderful youth there is. Several times a year, thousands of youngsters raised in the Zionist state gather near the remnant of our Temple, swearing their willingness to sacrifice their lives for the sanctification of G-d in defending the homeland and the people of Israel. How many tears did I shed during this holy occasion when I saw my two sons enlisted, one for the Golani and the other for the paratroopers and swore like that. No one forced it on them. They did so of their own free will, which proves that there is no contradiction between Safra and Saifah.
“The state of Sodom and Gomorrah,” as you mentioned in your articles in the “HaChoma” of Neturei Karta the Zionist state. Then my uncle, Rabbi Amram, come hear what this state has, the world’s leading state in the number of charitable organizations that exist in it.
The first to offer help and assistance in every disaster in the world. A state that actually illustrates the concept of mutual responsibility, of “all of Israel are guarantors of one another.” The Zionist state is doing all it can to help any Jew wherever he is in times of trouble or distress, and sometimes even at risk of operations beyond imagination, such as Operation Yonatan. Not only that, but most of the great charitable organizations in the Zionist state were founded by chareidim: Yad Sarah, Ezer Mizion, the various Hatzalah organizations, ZAKA, and more, and these organizations are staffed by chareidim. The Zionist state has not yet managed to transfer the thousands of chareidim who head and mange these organizations to Shmad R”L, but rather U’Mekadshem Shem Shomayim in Israel and around the world.
In the state of relying on one’s own strength (ה”כוחי ועוצם ידי”), when there is a fear of drought, the Minister of Agriculture organizes a mass tefilla as the Kosel to be mispallel for rain. It is a country in which trumos and maasros are separated from 100 percent of its agricultural crops. A state that supports hundreds of millions of shekels for farmers observing shmitah.
If your generation rightly feared the Zionist state, 70 years later it was proven that the State of Israel, with the help of G-d, is the one that saves and protects the people of Israel, and it is the safest place – the best place to live as a Jew who observes Torah and mitzvos.
(YWN Israel Desk – Jerusalem)
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78 Responses
1) While the NK today are terrorist loving fanatics, Rav Bloi actually enjoyed the support of the Brisker Rav and other Gedolim, so i’m assuming that Mr. Meshi-Zahav is addressing them as well.
2) While i’m not going to deny the facts above, what’s left unsaid is that to this very day the Zionist regime continues to fight to mandate army service for yeshiva bochurim, plus other examples have been reported which clearly show the zionists hatred for the Jewish people and what they stand for as the Gedolim from prewar Europe until today have said.
the situation then is different than it is now. Then the religious were very few and the power of the socialist atheists was very great. Today, the religious population has grown and the influence of the religious has grown to the point that many non religious people do observe many mitzot such as pesach and yom kippur and more…
Useful idiot
Meshi zahav?
What material did the zionists have on you years ago when you “metamorphed” into a Zionist?
They must have had a lot to blackmail you into changing.
Whatever accomplishment you are citing is despite the zionists not because of them.
RASAH HOCHEN VETZADIK LOVESH. The wicket prepare but the righteous will wear. All that the haters of Torah have built, they have built for the lovers of Torah. It is part of G-D’s kindness that He gave them this task so that in spite of their insanity, they would still have a part of bringing the Geulah. Also, let us not be too critical of the fanatics of the past or present. They also have a role to play.
IMHO, he nebach missed the boat because it’s only BECAUSE OF all the demonstrations of the Neturei Karta etc that these positive things were accomplished. Halivay vayter!!
Thank you Yagoin, I would like to add that although it is true that R” Amram’s warnings that ” that within a few years there would be no remnant or refugee from the people of Israel” B”H did not come to fruition but that is only because R’ Amram and other Gedolom fought for every inch. Let us not forget that the Zionist State in the 50’s was openly bent on destroying any Yidishkeit. Look at what they did do the Teimanim who although were not effected by Hitler’s Holocaust had their own Holocaust here in “The State of Israel”. All the improvements are only because the chareidim fought tooth and nail for shemiras Shabbos etc. and still must fight (whether behind the scenes – some Gedolim or openly – other Gedolim, I do not deem myself worthy of giving an opinion in this machlokes). All the help the State of Israel gives to Torah is only because of the Frum people in the Knesset and because the Government has not choice if they want to keep the coalition. The biggest proof being the years when the Charadim were not in the government.
The early years were scary times. The chareidim were greatly outnumbered, and the Early Zionists were aggressively trying to snuff out Religious Judaism. The great sacrifices were necessary.
Today, it’s becoming irrelevant. As the Chazon Ish envisioned, the huge growth rate of the religious community has made the non-religious majority stand up and take notice, and recognize that they are a force to contend with- not fight.
I don’t know if the title should say “you were wrong”, it’s more like “we are winning”, or “we have won”.
Can we ever expect YWN to post an anti zionist leaning opinion article. NEVER. They have a clear agenda here. Just be aware.
For all who don’t know yet, he is on their payroll.
!משי זהב
??מתי יגיע הזמן שתבקש מחילה מאדמו”ר מ’בעלזא
He forgot to mention they 75% not keeping Shabbat in Israel,
He forgot thet most jews get killed in Israel more then the whole world,
He forgot thet no where in the world they arresting jewish boys or girls,
If this is intended to be a Torah defense of Zionism from someone of the classical NK, then it is a very sad and failed attempt at one.
First, since he admits that his own children are in the Zionist army, and is proud of that R”L, that shows that he is very biased and also clearly not following his uncle’s derech.
Second, as other commenters pointed out, the Zionist government has to pacify the observant Jews in its coalition.
Third, a frum faction struck a deal with the Zionists 70 years ago that they wouldn’t interfere in certain matters in return for their recognition of the Zionist entity.
So all the Torah that is learned there and all the chessed that is done there, etc. is despite the Zionists, not out of any good will from the Zionists towards Torah.
Finally, and what makes this so pathetic, is that he has not answered the points of his uncle, like “We heard about the decrees of annihilation of the Zionist regime, whose sole purpose was to transfer the Jewish people [from] its religion and faith. ” and “You said that the Zionists are guilty of all the troubles of the people of Israel, including the terrible holocaust.” History has shown, and current events continue to show, just how true are those statements and more.
As a bonus, his article contains what appear to be heretical views (like considering it holy to die for a homeland, which is Nationalism/Zionism, not, liHavdil, Torah).
Disgraceful. There is so much wrong with his statement. The Zionists were instrumental in sending thousands, if not hundreds of thousands of jews to their death during the holocaust, and considered the privileged, select few as more important than those many lives. The majority of our gedolim vehemently opposed zionism, and they’ve been proven right over and over. How many bodies and souls were condemned to physical and spiritual destruction, to the fires of hell on this world and the next, so the zionists could realize their dream of establishing a state soaked with the blood of innocents. Then they create a day to honor the memory of those they helped murder. If you think this is inaccurate, if you think this is propaganda, if you think the zionists saw the holocaust as anything but a way to advance their war on God and His Torah and further an agenda, you don’t know your history. It’s not just about the early days when the religious tzibbur was outnumbered, it’s about the total disregard of Jewish lives exhibited by the zionists. The founding of a state was paramount; Jewish lives, less so.
Most of these commentators are still fighting the civil war…
Its time to apply what you have learned to תשעח and move on to todays battles,
like defeating the extremists who have hijacked the Torah and try to twist it into misogynistic violence and intimidation…
Yasher Koachachu Rabbi Meshi-Zahav Shlita for your courage to speak the truth in a world of sinah, half-truths, tablespoons of lies, against the unwilling to face reality and miracles mob..,and for your hakoras hatov. Chazak Baruch. You are the Calev & Yehoshua against the 10.
Bravo !!
… Plus, Rabbi, dont’cha see it’s almost erev Yom Ha’atzmaut, and the panickers who can’t explain away the miraculous growth in virtually all areas in this tiny country surrounded by enemies , are scurrying to attack, defame and dust off tidbits from the past . Despite their hoopla and balagan, the Holy Land is flourishing and more and more are accepting this.
It’s last gasp desperation for them.
Happy Yom Ha’atzmaut.
YOU FOOL THERE ALL KEEPING SHABBOS BECAUSE OF REB AMRAM ZTZL ARE YOU OUT OF YOUR MIND? SERIOUSLY DONT WORRY ABOUT THE INTEGRITY OF THE ANTI ZIONIST FACTIONS WORRY ABOUT THE INTERGRITY OF YOUR ORGANANZATION,ZAKA. WHERE WERE THEY WHEN THAT BOY FROM REB TZVI KAPLANS YESHIVA WENT MISSING IN BAYIT VEGAN? WERE THEY DOING THE BEST THEY COULD TO AID IN THE SEARCH? OR ONLY WHEN THERES A HIGH PROFIULE TERRORIST ATTACK IN INDIA? THEN ZAKA COMES RUNNIGN WITH THE FULL LEVUSH AND ARE SPLASHED ALL OVER THE JEWISH MAGAZINES SHAME ON YOU MR ZAHAC CHANGE YOUR NAME TO NICHOSHES INSTEAD
> ALTERG1
While there are other posts that require no-nonsense rebuttal, yours is special because while other posts are basically different opinions on how to look at matters, your post pushes alleged facts/numbers/statistics (that is, implicit claim to scientific-like objectivity) , and that really upsets me. So my rebuttal to you is that by your analysis it makes no sense to have any Jew in any country and that all Jews should only be in countries where there are no Jews. Clearly any country devoid of Jews can have no Jewish deaths and no Jewish sins, while all Jewish deaths and Jewish sins are only in countries with Jews.
millions of jewish children educated in the state system every year to kfira.
if you are not a kofer yourself you beleive the words of the gemara “one who causes one to sin is worse than one who murders him” which means “millions of jewish children (worse than) murdered in the state education system”
if you are a kofer and dispute the words of the gemara than say so. period. pretty simple no?! hashem yerachem!
This foolish Mr. Zahav has forgotten the shmad the Zionists did to thousands of Teimani children and their very many other shmads over the last 70+ years to to current.
you have to know who these two individuals are and the level of yiras shamaim of ר’ עמרם and of the one that that wrote this letter and what are his motivations, don’t mislead these innocent readers
who in the wold is he to to make such statements and evaluate such major and crucial thing and voice his hashkofos that all the gedolem the past hundred years had already voiced there opinion on. if he dose not know his place you you know your place
שטייעדיגע תורה וד”ל
April 16, 2018 10:26 am at 10:26 am
!משי זהב
??מתי יגיע הזמן שתבקש מחילה מאדמו”ר מ’בעלזא
———————————
Belz has plenty to ask mechilla from. Besides all the chiilul shem shamayim they cause on a daily basis.
Waiting with baited breath!
The Rambam writes about taking the middle of the road. Extremism of both directions is generally bad. Unfortunately, that seems to be the case here. Both the Uncle and the nephew are of extreme views here.
Neturei Karta’s extreme views and actions are bad! However, the Israeli government, then and now, are far from being considered righteous. I could show how Meshi-Yahav is wrong on almost every point he brings up, but it is not worth the time and effort. BE”H we’ll be zoche to Beyas HaMoshiach soon and will all be in the Beis Medresh arguing over Rashi/ Tosefos instead of arguing whether the Israeli government is good or bad for the Jews.
Too many to respond individually, so I give a general, response to the posters as follows.
When the Hazon Ish promoted Hebrew as the language for Bnai Brak, he was challenged by a delegation from Jerusalem (which had banned Hebrew for instruction). In short, he responded that one fights the current war (fighting the previous war will just lead to losing). Most of these poster are fighting a long gone war. Catch up to the times.
I am happy to add my voice in support to Meshi-zahav and to zion gate! happy Jom Ha-atzmaut!
To all those writers here who are still stuck fighting the battles of the nineteenth century:
On behalf of Torah True Yidden everywhere I wish you all a happy and meaningfull Yom haAtzmaut!!!
Thank Hashem for the opportunities His blessing of self governance and self defence have brought us. And yes there is still a lot of work to do, so what are you complaining whiners doing to make it better???
It seems like all those bashing R’ Meshi-Zahav are stuck in the past. Yes, we can talk about the horrible haskkafos and damage that the early Zionists have caused. The point I believe R’ Meshi-Zahav is making is let us look at today. Are there still kofrim today-no, tishkinos shnisha, yes. Is the state of doing tons of good- no question about it. Anyone who wants to put down the Torah they support is either an idiot an ingrate or both. If you want to have the same attitude towards the army that uts their lives on the line to protect millions of Jews (including Chareidim) that is the epitome of a kafui tov. If you think insulting fellow Jews will bring them closer to Torah and your way of thinking you are sadly mistaken.
The war is over guys. Different battles are being waged. Get with the program
Yom ha’Atzmaut Sameach to everyone. We all owe Hakoras haTov to the incredible benevolence of the wonderful Medina who has opened its doors to every Jew wishing to live in Israel. We love the Medina, and it is is all that Rav Meshi Zahav said, and even better. We are about to have a Chiyuv Min haTorah of Yovel & Arachin, as we cross the 50% threshold of world Jewry residing in Israel, which is fast happening.
look at yourself now and then maybe its time to take off ur beard peyos and look like them too
“This foolish Mr. Zahav has forgotten the shmad the Zionists did to thousands of Teimani children….”
Many charaidim were not much better, accepting only a few Sefardim/Teimanim in their schools, who had to sit at the back of the class.
BTW, I once heard that Rav Shach said not to protest the soccer games on Shabbat. What’s the gain? They will be Mechallel Shabbat at home or at a game. What’s the difference? Besides which it causes strife.
I believe that Rav Shach was hinting to Rav Amram.
To those who mindlessly continue posting about the evil tzionists, the “shmad IDF”, and the usual drivel we can only sit back on yom ha’atzmaut laugh and remind them of the freedom they enjoy because of the medinah to speak and write whatever they wish. To those rabbonim and askanim who look back fondly on “the good ole days” prior to 1948 when frum yidden lived “peacefully side by side” with the Palestinians and repeat the usual admonitions about the evils of having a mediah before zman moishiach, we can only try to educate them about the bloodbath that would occur if c’v there wasn’t a medinah. Some are no doubt great talmeidei chachamim but their gross ignoance of geopolitical realities and where the muslim world has evolved is both breathtaking and shameful.
Very sad to see someone that dresses like a charedi yid convey a message that is so far from the view of gedolei yisroel. While it’s important to encourage the positive, his false message totally ignores (or worse, denies) the negative. The message unfortunately denies the chilul Shabbos, the treifus, the lack of keeping almost every aspect of halacha. It embraces a view of let’s be like all nations and it lends undue and false positivity to nationalistic hashkofos. Sorry Meshi Zahav but it seems this is what can happen when an askan does his work without Torah guidance. Very sad.
Baruch Hashem, we live in a time like no other. Hodu lashem ki to on every miracle and opportunity we have.
We have never had it so good. Let’s sing shiros vsishbachos, and may we continue to see the development of yahadus in Erets Yisrael, now and forevermore.
Why, in the name of everything holy, are the letters Z”TL after Amram Blau’s name? Are you kidding me? It should be the abbreviation of “yemach shmo v’zichro”. He was a horrid, disgusting rasha and his followers are even worse.
This Fellow has been feeling his oats while discovering his new freedoms for a while.
First, the very Cow-boyish video of the Senior Citizen patting a Lion in some African Safari.
I am no Shrink, but that is way beyond Midlife Crisis.
All I can Say that that as Torah Jews, we follow DAAS TORAH.
We do not Follow Neturai Karta [Although Rav Amram was well intentioned] no one ever confused him with being a Godol B’Yisroel.
We also Do not Free lance after the age of retirement and Create our own Hashkafa prespectives.
Having a White Beard just means that you are old.
One Can Be an Old Fool as well.
Besides, does anyone real care about this conflicted individual has to say anyway.
We have another casualty to the evil.tzionim they only wish to shmad us in their treif army who don’t realize the Torah protects us, most yiddisha children in the medina can’t say shma but know about evolution and the ” pride” lifestyle, we must fight Zionism like it’s the plague.
A Freilichin Yom HaAtzmaut to all
It’s unfortunate that people are taking the bait of YWN who is maliciously spreading Kefira among Klal Yisroel, poisoning the minds of its readers while YWN successfully deflects all critic to some ignoramus loser Meshi-Zahav, acting like they’re an innocent bystander.
YWN: אוי לנו מיום הדין אוי לנו מיום התוכחה.
@FarRockDad – I think you shouldn’t be allowed to spew personal attacks against other Yidden like that while hiding behind your keyboard, in your Bayswater home on Westbourne Ave. Ok Mendel Lowey? Let’s call a spade a spade.
I read Mashi-Zahav’s piece and thought we are definitely getting closer to ביאת המשיח but my smile faded quickly as soon as I started reading the comments.
Did Mr. Meshi-Zahav ever pay back his beloved State, for all the damage and ginaiva he did by burning down the bus stop shelters back in the 80’s??? Did he ever apologize to the private citizens he roughed up as a leader of the Sikrikim? His hands are clean? What a hypocrite phony.
To prove your frumkeit, you need to be antizionist. The more accusatory and hateful you can be, the frummer you are.
I don’t get the comments saying “Zahav is right! Those bad days are over; you mean, old Charedim need to get with the times!” I thought the point of the letter was that it was wrong to be anti-Zionist from the beginning. Using the fact that it’s better today as a proof implies that the progress is no thanks to the Charedi resistance over the years; I think that’s an absurd assertion. If the frum world just caved to the Zionists from the beginning we wouldn’t have half the Yeshiva’s we do today.
On a side note, I’ve always found it funny that the YWN readership is very clearly anti-Zionist inclined based on the comments/CR, while the actual authors at YWN don’t even cover up their Zionist bias to appease the readership. I guess there’s something to be said for sticking to your guns. The arguing keeps it fun; that’s probably why 90% of us are here instead of the more formal frum media outlets.
Blithering idiots. Somehow misidentifying miracles God makes for His nation learning His torah as an endorsement of Zionism. No one is denying the hashgachah pratis and open miracles the Jews have experienced in the last 70 years. What we’re trying to help you see is that a movement founded on principles of assimilation and c’v hating Hashem cannot be holy. How can you not see that? They KILLED jewish kids to further their agenda. Ben Gurion openly said he would sacrifice 750,000(!) jewish children to allow the same amount to make aliyah. Moshe Sharet documents in his diary the many times the possibility of saving jews was possible during the War, if only the founders of the state would have cared more about jewish blood then israel. English reporters expressed their dismay to the zionist leaders, unable to comprehend how they could actively sabotage any and all rescue efforts that didn’t involve aliyah. You need to be thick or intentionally blind to not see how subscribing to this movement, their ideals and holidays constitutes a direct affirmation of those ideals. These people could have cared less about killing YOU, had you been one of the unfortunates during WWII not deemed worth saving, instead being more valuable as blood to soak Europe soil, garnering sympathy for the zionists. You people literally don’t get it? Zionism is an evil movement founded by evil people. You can reject the movement and still appreciate what Hashem has given us in EY. I can’t understand why you can’t see that. It’s frustrating to see fellow jews join with those that killed a whole bunch of our people. And if your dumb enough to think that the state of affairs in israel is the result of secular zionism as opposed to the efforts of the frum MKs, askanim, etc. then you’re stupid. Don’t you recall how Netanyahu turned on frumkeit the moment he had a yesh atid coalition? The lengths you people will go to to not see the evil of the zionists is just so exasperating.
This is really funny!
For years i am wondering why the people of Mea Shearim are burning their trash, but now its all understood;
They are simply afraid that the Zionist will pick up their garbage, and use it against them.
Nice Try!
While thousands of Chariedim are recently breaking away from having any ties with the GOI, this is what they gained.
Somehow, sound people don’t wan’t to side with this person!
> Not getting involved
“Did Mr. Meshi-Zahav ever pay back his beloved State”
In an very real sense, ZAKA is payback (even for your imagined past) in spades, officially recognized even by the State itself. But what evidence do you have that he (personally) did any of those things you mention? As example, to quote Wikipedia: “The Sikrikim began to appear in ultra-orthodox neighborhoods in 2005.”
What makes him an expert in this area? He’s looking for attention big time.
> rashir1967
Just why do you think that any person, in particular a Jew, should not be allwowed to protect themselves and their society from invaders.
R. Blau was born in Jerusalem in 1894 – under the Ottomans and long before those who would later “take over” ever showed up. Then these secular outsiders show up to use force to change the existing society and take it (and the people) over.
What has changed since then is, for one example, the Hareidi have now spread into other cities long after the other cities were established by non-Hareidi and the Hareidi are trying to take them over.
So if you want to know what “holy” means (as per your “in the name of everything holy), we are told that to be holy do the right thing – leave those who were here before you unmolested, which works in both directions.
> AMCHU
Wow, you really are that jealous of his accomplishments that you have lash out? Perhaps the person requiring some help may be closer to home. For the record, he and his team were in South Africa for training, and that came in really useful at the end of December when rescue efforts were desperately needed to recover from severe storms leaving thousands homeless.
Yes, he’s right. We frum people have a beautiful place to live, learn, and do chessed. But not because of the Zionists – but in spite of them. And if not for Reb Amram’s mesiras nefesh fighting as a ‘fanatic’ we wouldn’t be in this position today. Meshi can be compared to Rebi Yehudah ben Ila’i (similar name?), and will have a worse fate because he knows his namesake’s history and yet acts against the Gedolim and the real Torah hashkafa and supports the Torah haters R”L.
As a kid, seeing Ren Amram do his thing I thought he was nuts. But then I grew up, saw the ‘haters’ fight Torah in every way, manner, and form on a daily bases, and finally realized what a hero he really was. He swore allegiance to the RBSO every single day – not one time with a rifle at the Kosel. But saying Krias Shema and Olainu three times a day, every day of his life.
I understand Meshi: וכסף יענה את הכל
NEBACH!
PS To all those posters that support this misguided soul that live in shmutz l’aretz, please, PLEASE move here (as the joke goes – don’t be a Zionist, be an Agudist), see what it’s REALLY like here – then comment.
Rash,
“Why, in the name of everything holy, are the letters Z”TL after Amram Blau’s name? ”
“It should be the abbreviation…”
Unbelievable! ? I am surprised this comment was even approved!
FYI – You do not have to agree to his actions and hashkafos. But NO ONE ever doubted his true and PURE l’shem Shomayim. Even the secular Jews in Jerusalem respected him for that.
Personally, he respected everyone as well. Just do your research and how the Chazon Ish and Rav Chaim Ozer regarded him and his followers actions.
What a relief! Although the poll in Israel said that 45 percent of chareidim identify as Zionist, at least here in the US there’s still a chance.
Rav Amran Bloi Zatzal was respected by all the gedolim. The Chazon Ish traveled in person from Bnei Brak to Yerushalayim (one of the few times he ever left Bnei Brak) to visit Rav Amram in jail. When asked by his talmidim why, he replied that he’s going to visit Shabbos.
The Neturei Karta of then is nothing like the Neturei Karta of today.
Too bad R’ Amram ztz”l is not here to answer you.
He sure would say “You’re right my dear nefew you’re right. But all the good you mention is due to our resilients.”
All what Meshi Zahav wrote about the state of Israel is right, but Rav Amram is not the right person to write this letter to.
Rav Amram was against the Zionist movement as they originally wanted to become some kind of a new religion, he was afraid they will convince everyone against the Torah (and he was not far from the trues) Second he was against any kind of state in Israel including a religious state of Israel, the establishment of a state according Rav Amram opinion was forbidden , Meshi Zahav doesn’t even know it.
Rav Amram did not want to move to Jordan, he wanted permission from the king to leave in Jerusalem and asked permission to go to the Kotel.
Rav Amram did not like Yehuda Meshi Zahav and the last did not respect Rav Amram during his life nor after his death, Yehuda was just looking for action wherever that was without really caring what it is all about, he was one of the kids who were throwing stones and cursing Rav Amram for marrying a Giores, later on he took without permission the booklet with the love letters between Rav Amram and his wife Ruth and sold some of them to Maariv newspaper and last year put the rest in an auction,
so please Mr Meshi Zahav – you did amazing things in your life but don’t pretend to respect Rav Amram, at least be honest.
“He forgot to mention they 75% not keeping Shabbat in Israel,”
AlterGolem,
And how many Jews (if you can still call those Halachakly Jews) keep Shabbos in our wonderful USA?
How many Jews assimilate in the USA?
How many Jews in the USA have a chance of ever returning to Yidishkeit?
With all due respect, MashZahav’s point is very silly and makes zero sense, I find it even strange that yw would post such stupidity. No offense. All Gedolim who were against Zionism, their opposition wasn’t based at all on some supposed prediction of doom and gloom, that’s not how Judaism works, their opposition was purely based on a shita that Zionism is a violation of the Torah and that it’s bad for Jews even if it’s paradise there. So how in the world does MashiZahav get to become a proud Zionist all because some prediction he was expecting to happen did not materialize. I’m sorry I have to say MashiZahav is not to smart.
Patial TOI..”…….Blithering idiots. …..The lengths you people will go to to not see the evil of the zionists is just so exasperating…..”
Then be exasperated. There was some bad in Zionism then and now, and there’s much, much good.
You possibly have evil eyes and seek bad, so be exasperated.
You see TOI…. You need to get your guys in order first, then scream and curse at others.
They’re a politicized bunch, the Chareidim, the kosher hechsher mob controllers, the vagrants and bums who disrupt other’s lives., the chair throwers and nose punchers in your prominent Litvishe Bnai Brak yeshiva, the bold feuds between dynasties IN SECULAR COURTS , machlokes and , machlokes between families, the anonymous pakshivillin( posters) cursing, threating…
The sthtreimel-frisbee throwers in anti- Zionists Chassidic shuls…. Should I go on?? Why should anybody respect you guys, or even listen to what you have to say?
You hide under this “Gedolim” banner….. You’re not fooling anybody anymore… The anti-Zionist extremist chillul Hashem, pirrud, and slander bring shame to all of us.. Most of us aren’t buying it anymore, even though they may not openly profess it….
I’m not even going to get into your lie about Zionists and European Jews…..
You…uh….uhm , neglect the fleeing rebbes abandoning their flock….. The grand prominent rabbi who refused to allow Zionists shlichim to speak in his Transylvanian shul and to the people in the neighboring towns., who begged them to get out.. He cursed them… Then fled to Hungary and was saved by the Zionist Kastner, was one of them..
You bought into slander , sheker and hate… You and publishers are hiding the truth of support of Zionists movement in pre-war Europe, but who cares anymore? You lost…!!
YOU lost….!!! A Holocaust survivor, a talmid chacham, told me years ago that he questions whether many rabbis/rebbes can honestly proclaim ” Yodeinu Lo Shofchu Es Hadam Hazeh”
Who’s the blithering idiot??? How dare you??? Check the anti-Zionists fanatic’s hands for Jewish blood….!!!
How dare you??
Yom Ha’atzmaut Someach, for the great blessings and miracles, despite the kofui tovah’niks .
I’m not excusing anyone’s faults, I’m questioning your inability to detach an appreciation for what EY is today from the awful people who started and therefore defined a movement. Why is loving a movement hell bent on waging war on on God so central to your Judaism?
Read Rav Reinis, Rav Teichtal, Rav Kalischer, Rav Nissenbaum and you’ll understand.
No religious Zionists, for the upteenth time, argues for the exteremist elements in anti- religious Zionism.
Read the other side, you seem like an intelligent person, so it doesn’t behoove you to just be a Kool Aide drinking puppet.
So let’s get our house in order first.
I wasn’t his talmid or “chussid”, let’s say.
But before you guys talk about spilling blood, let’s discuss the murderous reaction in some circles at the petirah of Rav Shteinman, Z”tl.
Before you condemn the Zionists, why are you afraid to condemn the ugly, obscene and horrifying posters, announcements and curses IN loshon Kodesh and Yiddish, in EY, London and New York.
The pain that was inflicted upon his name, family and talmidim … The desecration of his kever.
What do your gedolim have to say about that?… I can’t hear you…? What’d ye say???
Or should we wait 70 years and our children fight about this soon-to- be past.
Many here don’t even realize the desecration that took place in shuls, the “happy” tikuns, the no Tachnuns, etc the next day …. I’m not going to post them, it’s horrible..
No, but you’re busy with Zionists and who supported and opposed them 3, 000 decades ago..
to Yehuda,
as a friend of your father’s I will recall that he told me that only a few boys out of HIS class remained frum! Is that the glorious state you refer to?
let us remember that much of the good mentioned in this letter was not sanctioned by the anti religious state , but pulled off by great visionaries, like the Chazon Ish BEHIND THEIR BACK, sometimes using them to help.
the Chazon Ish said without the sins of the zionists we WOULD NOT NEED the thousands of korbanos the IDF offered!
wow wow wow!!!!! i am from your generation Yehuda Mashi-Zahav .i grue up with the afgonos from r. Amrom Blau… it was terrible!!!!! my father z”l would tell the children: that to trow a stone is just as chilul shabbos. one of you blau kids answers: we put it away spacial for shabbos. my father z”l would ask, how is it a frum chasidishe man letting children to be mechalel shabbos???? i’m amazed by your article. recognizing Israel as a place that all the Jewish people should be. and the boys that are not made for to seat and learn, should go to the army. in the army, they would learn a thing or 2 and then get a job. hundreds of boys are roaming the streets. and the ones that call themselves “neturey carta” kissing the Arab leaders,what a shame and a Chillul Hashem. Hashem send the Holocaust for the yiden that where mingling with the goyim and the innocent had to suffer too, i wish they should be taking care of, and the Chillul Hashem will stop and Moshiach can come. all does comments are stupid, the so called neturey carta, that are poisoning this generation, to kiss and bow to the biggest enemy of the Jewish people. are much worse, then what was don to the Taymaner. the biggest Torah learning is in Israel and no thanks to Amrom Blau. thanks Mashi-Zahav for opening some eyes and souls.
the ones that say that Ben-Gurion send hundreds of Jews back to Europe ,should study history again, it wasn’t Israel then. it was Palestine and belonged to the British. the British where ruling and the ship that came to Israel, the British are the ones that send the ship back to Europ…..
There’s a comment above that reads:
“Meshi can be compared to Rebi Yehudah ben Ila’i (similar name?), and will have a worse fate because he knows his namesake’s history and yet acts against the Gedolim and the real Torah hashkafa and supports the Torah haters R”L.”
I’m pretty sure he meant someone else. The generation of Rabi Yehudah bar Ila’i is said to have been one in which 6 men had to share a blanket, yet they were great in Torah. Before making such a comment about one of Chazal,
people should make sure that they do get the name right.
Oy, such hatred voiced here. When you beg Hashem to forgive you of your sins, do you do your part to be the receipient of such blessing by acting mida k’need mida and forgive others? When you say Ribono Shem Olam hareini mochel l’col mi …. before retiring each night, do you mean it? Do you judge others favorably?
Many of you, it seems, have hearts infected with hatred, it is a poison that is contrary to Torah whose ways are pleasantness and peace, first and foremost amongst ourselves.
With blessings for a speedy healing.
I see that a great of people, living in the US, chose to remain steadfast in the ideology despite seeing the Jewish, the State of Israel, Torah, and history blooming before their eyes. Meshi Zahav understands this. A pity that you don’t.
For all those living al admas hakodesh but can’t stand the Zionists, here is a simple solution. Sell your homes and move to Ramallah, Jenin or Bet Lechem. This way you’ll be able to continue to live Al admas Hakodesh but instead of living under the Zionists you’ll be able to live under Abbas. This should be a win win situation for you as you will probably make a ton of money selling your current apartment and buying in one of these other neighborhoods and you’ll be able to escape the terrible zionists. Let us know how that works out for you. By the way if there were no zionists running Israel today you’ll get Abbas anyway or maybe Hamas or maybe the Iranians instead.
blauruth,
Finally one comment that really shed light on what the true character of the writer is.
From what I heard, not only did they never respect Rebetzin Ruth Blau they slandered her in public as well. Although she was a true Tzadekos, and Rav Amram did nothing wrong by marrying her (giving his condition).
There is the famous saying from Rav Yitchok Alchonon ZTL regarding Kenoyim like these:
He compared it to – there are two that hate mice in the house. The cat and the housewife. The house wife wishes it never appears at all, whereas the cat wishes that it does appear so he can go and chase it out.
Kenoyim like these are the latter…
@rkefrat- You miss the point. No one in their right mind is saying we don’t need the army, they don’t protect us, who needs them, etc. The point is a simple one. Fact: Zionism was a movement founded to make jews forget God and His Torah. There is no argument about this. It was not an extreme wing of zionism that tried to make us just another nation, nor just a couple of crazys, it’s the point and basis of the movement. Now, based on that, the question is, should one pledge allegiance and fealty to said movement, follow its tenets and traditions, or not. Now, not following zionism as a movement in no way implies a lack of hakaras hatov to the army, or to those who provide the vital services everyone enjoys, nor does it constitute an implication of will to live in Ramallah, as you so glibly suggest. It just means we refuse to praise, honor, and deify a group of people and what they struggled for, for their struggle was synonymous with being complicit with the murder of 10,000s of jews, and a disregard for the religion that has held us together forever. I believe the biggest evidence that there is some sort of emotional disconnect between these two things is the inability (correctly and understandably) of anyone here of addressing the points I made, choosing instead to trash chareidim for their shortcomings as an answer. I’m not here to answer for their shortcomings, and do believe their behavior is disgusting, but that is a deflection, not an answer. Can you please explain how you can divorce the movement’s founders and ideals, their actions and words, from the movement itself, and thereby justify adherence to it? Because the evidence of their guilt, at the very least, to allowing 10,000s of jews die and burn, standing idly by and choosing to let them die for their cause, is astonishingly overwhelming.
why are shalmis and chassidsh people in general always looking to find sipuk in yiddishkeit and connection to hashem in genreal by making machas and being overly radical. Why dont they just come learn in bmg or mir a good first seder with all the toild and effort it takes to be succesful in fully being able to grasp a sugya and then they wont need to look for satisfaction in other ways. anotehr thing is if you did an avierah chas veshalom you saw something you were not supposed to see so do teshuvah and go learn torah ,instead of feeling guilty and lashing out on others to make up for lehavdil isis extremists do all types of aveiros the night before and the next day they go shooting people in the name of god its their way of making up for their sins .
rkefrat your a duncecup if abas and the palestinian leaders would nt be so filled with hatred and anger if the zionists didnt provoke them by taking the land of israel and attempting to rule the world it might not h ave been so dangerous to live in these places if the zionist ideology was never created in the 1800s and jews would as a whole maintain a lower profile from not hogging 6 seats on a plane to not letting it take off because a 100 chassdim need to get onto the flight to kahanenikers beatign up arabs to ben gurion etc even if yishmael hates yaakov we would have been somewhat better off
Toi,
“Because the evidence of their guilt, at the very least, to allowing 10,000s of jews die and burn, standing idly by and choosing to let them die for their cause, is astonishingly overwhelming.”
FYI – You are confusing the two factions of the Zionsts movements; Mapai and the Irgun/Lechi etc.
Exactly my point since Abbas and friends are so filled with anger and the only choice today is to live under Jewish rule in Israel that’s the reality and we have to live with the hand that we currently have been dealt you might not like Zionism but the alternative is much much worse or you would move to Ramallah
The comments posted here are embarrassing! Rav Meshi Zahav, who has had a front row seat to witness the amazing neis of the Zionist enterprise, is simply confirming what he has seen. Yes, my anti-Zionist friends, baruch Hashem, the Jewish state of Israel is an amazing success.
Please recognize this, finally, and please join those of us who proudly said Hallel today!
It was worth waiting for it…
כן יאבדו כל אויביך ה’
היינו דאמרי אינשי “The mills of God grind slowly, but they grind exceeding small”