Spin-off topic: Religion and Moral and/or Law & ordered society

Is there a forum for “Torah Hashkafa” or “Torah thoughts”, other than inspiration and mussar? I didn’t find one, so I’m posting here.

I’m not sure who I’m responding to, but the question of whether morality and law is affected by religion surprised me, on the thread about the late Stephen Hawking, on this forum I got the feeling that some frum Jews don’t know that the Torah itself has an “opinion” about this.

I feel a need to set the record straight, for the purpose of edufication, and Kavod Shomayim: (I hope)
The following is a drop in the bucket of the Torah position:
There is a very basic premise, I just don’t remember the exact wording, nor the source. But anyone here who has learned, has come across it, so they can help me out:

“Ilmalei Moreh Malchus, Ish Es Rei-aihu Chayim B’lo’o.”
“If not for fear of The King, Men would completely swallow up their neighbors alive”.

It’s not religion as a concept that creates ordered society. Observant Jews recognize that the Torah is objectively TRUE. There’s a lot of ways we get to that conclusion, using reason. There are plenty of resources for those who want to know how we know the Torah is True – I’m not discussing that in this post. Be that as it may, Torah Judaism is not a “religion”, if there are many religions. It’s much more than a religion. But if you are going to label it a religion, It’s actually the ONLY true one.

Assuming we accept that basic concept, it really doesn’t matter if there have been societies that followed false beliefs, and still had law and order. The ONLY true religion is the absolute source for UNIVERSAL, Objective law and order. And that is accomplished on the basest level, because of fear of reprisal – from a powerful ruler. The most powerful Ruler is G-d.

To explain further:
It’s not a matter of, your religion says that killing is bad, and his religion says that killing is good. Who says it’s bad to kill? What’s inherently humanely wrong with me believing that I am allowed to do whatever I deem necessary to get more stuff? If somebody interferes with what I do, or what I want, why can’t I kill him to clear my way? Who says I can’t? It’s a subjective opinion! But if there is a powerful ruler, or government who makes that rule, most people would follow it, even though it is a subjective opinion (that of the king), at the very least because of fear of the concequences. This prevents anarchy. But what if the current leader(ship) is weak? There is no fear of “the king”. And the society does deteriorate. What if the leader’s subjective opinion rules that killing is allowed, or even praiseworthy? (Nazi Germany, The inquisition…)

The Torah view is that we only know that one is not allowed to kill, because Hashem says so in His Torah, and on the most basic level, we listen to what He says, because we fear him. If there is no fear of G-d, there is no need to listen to what He says in His Torah. We can each follow whatever we want, and nobody is more justified in his beliefs, or actions, than anybody else. If there IS no G-d, chas v’sholom, then there certainly isn’t any fear of Him. So atheism, also precludes fear of the most Powerful King. There may be a powerful leader who makes laws and enforces them. But those rules are arbitrary, and subject to his beliefs, or opinions. If the leadership changes, the laws can change as well.

The bottom line is, in reality, without recognition of an Absolute Authority, you have no right to impose your view of morality on me. If you are currently stronger than me, you will impose your view, which will last until I escape from under your power, or somebody else overpowers you, and institutes his new subjective rules. Including whether it is moral to kill someone, in a given circumstance.