Dear Yeshiva World readers,
This past Erev Shabbos I saw the proprietor of a well-known Flatbush food store carrying a box stamped with a certain Shechita on it.
I asked him “since when have you used this brand – you have always told me that you use Alle and Vineland.”
He answered “as of 3 weeks ago – as per my Rav HaMachshir.”
To which I asked – “but then why did you not post a sign? You know numerous people who buy from you do not eat this. The Rav of my shul does not eat this Shechita and neither do many of his baalei batim from this very neighborhood.”
He did not answer.
I have no issue with any Shechita – but I have a major issue with a Rav HaMachshir and even more so with a store where I have been a steady customer, that after so many years changes their shechitah – all they have to simply do is to post a notice!
It is not an issue of kashrus.
It is an issue of neemanus.
And since a well-known Flatbush Rav HaMachshir has changed a standard (and no doubt with good justification) that has been his status-quo for years – but without any public Notice to date, then you my dear Reader cannot assume anything remains the same where you purchase – unless your storekeeper appreciates that he has an obligation to you.
My storekeeper did not and still does not think so.
Signed,
A Very Disappointed Kosher Shopper.
Join the official YWN WhatsApp status
43 Responses
stop hiding behind annoymity, disclose store, schechita in question and rav hamachshir otherwise this mailbag is pointless
“stop hiding behind annoymity”
GOOD POINT Mr. Mar!!!!!!
Let’s start with you first. Kindly tell us all your real name.
Once that’s out of the way, kindly tell us all the name of your Rov, and we will then ask YOU to call him. When speaking to him please get us a Psak in writing by that the reader can publicly disclose the name of this store.
Then report back to us if you have that Psak in writing. We will then post your Rov’s name and number here so everyone can verify the Psak.
Puleeze…
Until then….
Grow up.
PS: Correct spelling of “Anonymity”.
I CONCUR WITH #1
BMG Coffe Room
what was the point of this post without additional info?
HEY, BMG
WHY DOES HE NEED A PSAK ? DO YOU HAVE SOME SORT OF LOSHON HORA QUESTION HERE.
GET OUT OF THE COFFEE ROOM AND GET BACK INTO THE BEIS MEDRASH
neemanus and achraus is the key word, we had a similar story in Monsey. There was a kosher restaurant which closed down. The new owner was not shomer shabbos or kosher but sold “kosher style” food, which means same menu as the last guy in the same store. Many felt the Rav who gave the hechsher before should warn the public with a free ad in the local paper. He disagreed, he felt he has no responsibility once he stops getting paid!!!
How many people kept eating there is anyone’s guess.
The question is, what is the solution, for this type of non caring attitude?
To Mar: The point is that you should not take any Kashrus for granted.
Period.
Also, thanks for following the above instructions. Guess you are just a scared chicken lurking in the darkness. Be a man, post your name, your Rov’s name and get to work.
You seem soooooooooooo convinced that there is a Heter for what you requested. PROVE IT.
To Tzee Klug: Yes I am worried about Lashon Hara, and I’ll get back to the Bais Medrash when you stop acting “Tzee Klug” – because you are pretty far from it.
According to the Chofetz Chaim, Lashon Hara is the worst Aveira in the Torah, and yes, that concerns me; and it should concern you as well.
Stop bickering. I have a very simple soloution. YW should verify through this letter writer who this concerned shopper is and the name and address of this store. They should then contact the store owner and try to verify these facts did indeed take place. Then YW should contact its daas torah ( as they normally do I assume) and if YW finds it neccesary to post the information it will do so without delay.
I think “debor bnachas” is an important quality and applies to on line conversation. You should only write in a manner that you would also speak.
I am sure nobody else speaks so harshly in the coffee room.
I think the point that mar was saying was that we would like to know which store this is so that others can be aware, not that the letter write should state their name. Perhaps it was a request for ywn to investigate.
I believe the writers point was not to expose any certain store or rav hamachshir per say, but , rather to raise awareness to the fact that this may be a possibility in other stores as well
The “Kashrus merry-go-round” is a scandal.
An unscrupulous vendor who is dropped by his Rav HamachShir simply goes to another organization, and everything is O.K.–business as usual.
The new Kashrus committees that have been organized in many Jewish neighborhoods are attempting to remedy this HeKeiRus. No one can “take-over” a HechSher,” without first inquiring why the previous Rav HamacShir left or was “fired.”
to bmg
this does NOT fit any criteria of loshen horah.
check it out.
I agree that the point of this letter was only to raise awareness. Not to “bashmutz” any single place. There is no need to say where this incident occured. Just should be a wake-up call to us all to be on our toes when purchasing in an establishment.
It is no secret that there are people who do not eat Rubashkin products. When a store that has never used Rubashkin products begins to sell it in their processed foods (e.g. cutlets, hamburgers, cholent, etc.) and it would be all but impossible for a customer to recognize the change, it would seem obvious that the owner should at least put up a small sign so that he is not machshil other people. If there is no issur in yoreh deah, it is likely an issur in choshen mishpat. As well, the proprietor knows full well that he is fooling the public. Should the owner continue to maintain a chezkas kashrus?
I am the Letter Writer.
In my shul I posted this publicly with all names – mine, the Rav HaMachshir and the establishment.
Most people did not care and did not comprehend any issue.
Some turned it into a kashrus issue – which it isn’t and certainly not my intent.
Some turned it into a loshon hara issue – which it isn’t. Do your own research.
Some of my chaveirim were grateful that it was brought to their attention for reasons of their similar personal standards.
The Rav of my shul was the most upset because he found this out through me – and that it was not the establishment (which had just catered in our shul the week before) that advised him that they changed shechita –
but he also wants shalom and not chalila any machlokes.
Because the reactions were so adverse, I have no interest in becoming the centerpiece of a Flatbush controvesy which will inevitably be distorted.
It is an issue of transparency and disclosure to the kosher consumer.
Neither a Rav HaMachshir nor a kosher food establishment can change a decade long policy of the shechita it carries – without Notice.
Interestingly, the Rav HaMachshir has not yet posted public Notice of a change in the establishments under his supervision that occurred a full month ago.
When advised of my shul Notice he called and attempted to pressure my Rav to change his shul policy as to which shechita the shul allows. That is shocking.
I have always had full 100% confidence in the establishment and never ate there because of its hashgacha (which is private and not institutional) persay.
I now am not sure what to think.
I am actually quite shaken.
A Very Disappointed Kosher Shopper
the letter writer is right he pointed out a problem benoigayh to misleading or maybe overlooked..he made us aware of a problem now all one who is concerned has to do is ask his meat store if he is still selling only meat from that particlar hecsher or hechshers and ask him in the future if there is change to notify cutomers…now why is it nessesary to name names and make another “stink” when matters can be solved so simple…after all we are not talking here about hilcos yoreh daye (kashrus)we are talking about hilchos chosen miahpt(oinuah, gneivas dass ??)
#16 makes sense..if the proprietor never said that he carries only those 2 “shechites” mention above and “dissapointed shopper” only assumed so then thers no taynes..also rav hamachsir didnt say what “shechites” he allows under his hashgochoo..so we dont see what irregularities happened here..
In my humble opinion, this whole conversation is off topic, the topic should be if you trust the rav hamachshir with his guidelines or your own, which means, do you trust him to decide for you what is a good hechsher for the products used for the ingredients under his hashgacha [which personally is my opinion] or you don’t trust him for that, but you trust your own opinion only and the rav hamachshir is just to carry out your opinion in kashrus [which i personally think is wrong].
Let’s clarify this discussion.
There are two reasons for buying in a particular store, either:
You trust the storekeeper. Then the Hashgocho is not relevant.
Or,you trust the Hashgocho. Then the storekeeper is not relevant.
If the storekeeper is the one to be trusted, then his job is to ignore the lower standards of the mashgiach and to continue the higher standards that he is accustomed to. (His mashgiach surely will have no problems with this.) If the storekeper doesn’t, that tells you that you should never have bought there because his standards are lower than yours.
If the mashgiach is to be trusted, then you can’t complain about anything because you have surrendered your trust to him.
If the meat is packaged and its’ origin is labeled and all the mashgiach does is make sure that the seperation of the different origins are correct, then the choice is 100% yours.
So, your complaint is not fair.
The Flatbush matter is not at all like the Monsey case referenced in comment 6. If I have eaten at a restaurant called Duvy’s (fictitious name) and next time I walk in, it’s called O’Shea’s (again, fictitious name), I as the consumer should inquire about the kashrus. In fact, it’s not a bad idea to double check that any restaurant/product still has the same hechsher as last time you ate there/purchased it. If the restaurant or product is no longer certified (especially if the restaurant went out of business), I don’t think the hashgacha has a responsibility to notify the public unless there was fraud that might recur.
In the Flatbush matter, though, as described in the original letter, there was no way for the consumer to have known that the standards changed. Same proprietor, same hechsher, how should the consumer know that the Rav Hamachshir changed his standards?
The Rav Hamachshir was certainly within his rights to change and he probably had an excellent reason for agreeing to permit use of this other brand of meat, but what are we supposed to do as consumers? I can’t call every hashgacha every time I buy an item to make sure they haven’t changed their standards since last time I bought a package!
You do not mention ever contacting the rav hamachshir . You hang signs in shule write letters to Y.W why not do the most basic and simplest thing contact the rav hamachshir. Certainly you have the time for it.
#16, you just don’t get it.
In the world we live in, it would be considered unusual and lacking in derech eretz to ask a proprietor where the meat is from every time you enter the store. After all, the owner already told you what purveyors he uses. Therefore, if the shopkeeper has previously assured you that:
1. HE ONLY USES ALLE AND VINELAND; and
2. HE DOESN’T USE RUBASHKIN, and
3. HE KNOWS FULL WELL OTHERS WOULD NOT EAT RUBASHKIN; and
4. HIS RAV HAMACHSHIR PREVIOUSLY STATED HE WOULDN’T ALLOW RUBASHKIN IN STORES UNDER HIS HASHGACHAH,
there would be no reason for a normal person to assume that Rubashkin is being used. It is therefore incumbent on the storekeeper to inform his customers of the new reality.
What is even more remarkable is that you suggest the owner consulted with the Rav HaMachshir as to whether he needs to inform his clientele when the Rav HaMachshir himself is part of the bait and switch.
Okay, maybe the shopkeeper doesn’t need to be reprimanded, but …would you buy a used car from him????
In response to #21 and others that say we should ask where the meat is from or who gives the hashgacha every time we walk in, is simply unrealistic and nonsensical!!
The Rav who gives a hechsher has to also take in account human nature, such as we’re not going to ask these questions every time we walk in.
As far as the restaurant in Monsey, not everyone knew it was closed or sold to someone not shomer shabbos. And yes every person that ate treif is on the Ravs head.
Same old Same old Same old.
Every time you rely on an establishment you recheck the Hechsher to make sure that it is still valid.
As far as the Rav Hamachshir is concerned he should at least advise other Rabbonim of the change. Remember relying on any Hechsher is in essence a kula – so make sure you do your research well.
BUT you also cannot be expected to ask every time you buy cholent meat if the standards changed. In practice the suppliers name should be printed on the package of meat.
Have fun!
your beef should be with the rav HaMachshir , and yourself and not with the storekeeper. a good rav hamachshir should have no problom having a sign saying whose meat is being used in the store where he is the rav hamachshir. it should be no differant then there being a sign that says all bread must be washed on or we use only yoshon.
if you have questions when you walk in to a store as to what and how things are being done and being served , then you should speak up and ask. if you don’t ask then you must feel that what ever the rav hamachshir does is okay. a good storekeeper will allways tell what the rav hamachshir wants , because he must follow what he says at all times , if not he will loose his hechsher.
please remember most storekeepers have to do what the rav hamachshir tells him to do , and not what he wants to do. as for myself we will buy at a store that we don’t know who the owner is if we feel that there is a good rav hamachshir.
Comment by BMG Coffee Room — February 18, 2008 @ 11:32 am
what is your name or do you like to hide behind a coffee mug.
is the internet under lock and key in the
BMG coffee room
I have had the same problems. I “PREFER” to not eat certain shechitas.
I will state up front, that I am not saying that any shechita or processing company is not kosher, that is not my place.
But, I do have my preferences, based on the experiences of people I trust.
Also, all XXXXXX, YYYYYY, and ###### are written by me to avoid using names. This was not edited by YW.
I do ask before going to a restaurant, what shechita they are using. I phone ahead and ask to speak to the mashgiach. I then ask the mashgiach for his name, and proceed to ask: 1) What shechita is currently being used. 2) Is that shechita is the one I approve of, is it being used exclusively. 3) I ask has anything from XXXXXXXX been allowed into the establishment since the last time I called. and, the most importatant one … 4) Would they allow me to check their freezer/refrigerator?!?!
Why do I go through all this rather obnoxious stuff? Because I have received plenty of empty double talk and empty promises in the past.
One told me he only allows Alle and Vineland, and no other meat is allowed on the premises.
When I got there, I asked to speak to the mashgiach, identified myself, and and invited myself into his refrigerator/freezer. (Since I am associated with the same hashgacha agency, and a friend of the rov hamachshir, he would have had a hard time dissuading me, so he broke down and said, “Well, you know Rabbi XXXXXX allows other shechita besides Alle and Vineland. I could not stop them from buying from those other sources that you don’t like.”
So, I inquired, “Why did you lie to me on the phone? I drove 40 minutes to get here. I would not have come if you had told me the truth.”
He replied, red in the face, and in a whisper, “The owner was standing right near me when he handed me the phone. He shook his head to me, telling me what to reply. I was afraid of being fired.”
I do understand. In the kashrus world today, many a mashgiach is only one paycheck away from becoming homeless. They are so underpaid, that they live in fear. Oh, sure, they will be found other employment if the owner fires them, but it may take a week or two, or in a slow season 3 weeks. Or if they needed certain hours, it may take longer.
So, we have developed a real problem here.
Mashgichim are frightened of being fired. We need to pay them MUCH more than they are getting if you want reliablity, and courage.
Kashrus agencies are afraid of losing accounts!!!
Each account is a cash cow once established.
—–
But, also, I can understand what the writer was saying. My own rov has the same preferences I have as far as sources of meat products. But when he mentions it to “friends and associates” he is not understood. They make light of it, and say things like, “Oh, we have always eaten XXXXXX products. I am sure it is okay, and that all the bad press is just loshon horah.”
What was funny, is that at his home, he mentioned this at the Shabbos table. A visiting rov, not believing him, replied, “Ha, you know we eat XXXXXX only. Those stories about XXXXXX were just put out to make it look bad. I will never eat Satmar Shechita.” The next moment, he lifted a forkful of Satmar Sechita meat to his mouth. He was so absolutely sure that my rov, who just happens to be “one of his group”, could never actually serve anything but XXXXX.”
My Rov looked at me and winked.
He pulls me to the side later and said, “See, they just will not believe. If they witnessed “their favorite processing company” shecht a chazir, they would look for a way to make that chazir kosher in their own minds! They resist Alle/Vineland products due to old anger at something that happened many years ago, that had nothing to do with Alle/Vineland, and has nothing to do with kashrus.”
He then told the bochurim in his own semicha chabura/class, in front of me, that he, the Rabbi, himself only only buys Alle/Vineland and they demonstrated what he had said to me. They said, “How can you eat Satmar shechita after what XXXXXX did to YYYYYY?”
He replied, “First of all, you can’t fine better, more reliable shechita than Satmar shechita. Secondly, that story you talk about, happed before you were born! It had nothing to do with shechita or kashrus. It was a fight between people in Brooklyn, and you were only given OUR SIDE. To avoid good, reliable shechita from real yirai shomayim because of an, old, unfounded grudge, is stupid and blind.”
An other story which should really demonstrate it:
I walked into a store where I used to purchase Alle/Vineland products. There were none on the shelves/refrigerator cases. I called the owner aside and asked about it. He told me, quietly, “Two rabbis of two different shuls, both ###### rabbis, came into the store, and told me that if we don’t throw out the All/Vineland products and carry XXXXX exclusively, they will tell their mispallilim to not shop here. I can’t afford this. So, I caved. In this neighborhood, I can’t tick off this group if I want a parnasa.”
These stories show a bit of the problem today.
Politics is strong. Grudges are strong, and followed blindly. Mashgichim are too afraid to do a good job.
And, the writer is correct. We should be able to KNOW what meat is being used. We have a right to know that. I have spoken to a major rav hamachshir about it in this neighborhood, and asked that they make up a simple certificate that mentions the source the store or restaurant uses for their meat, and post this on the front window/door. This way the consumer can decide.
You know what his response was? “That would hurt our cause. A few are now using Alle/Vineland, and not advertising the fact. Keeping a higher level of kashrus than they ever had before. But, with so many customers insisting on that other XXXXXX source, they would have to switch back to it, and we would have fewer places to eat.
I have no answers. Just wanted to tell the stories I had on this issue.
No, I am not saying that XXXXXX is not kosher. That is not my place, or right to do. I am saying that if many of us do have specific preferences, and prefer certain meat processors over others, we should be able to ascertain, and know what we are buying.
One store is doing just that. They have 4 different shechitas in their refrigerator cases. But they have a sign behind the counter, “ALL MEAT USED BY US FOR OUR HOT FOOD, TAKE OUT OR CATERING IS ALLE PROCESSING AND/OR VINELAND ONLY.”
Also, do not attack anyone for remaining anonymous. In today’s world a person can be given a really hard time speaking out openly on this topic. Let’s than them for what they do come out and say, instead of persecuting them for what they do not say. It takes courage today to speak out. Thank you “Very Disappointed Kosher Shopper” for your courage.
Ooops one more quick line.
I was in a store a few weeks ago, and speaking to the mashgiach there, an old friend of mine, I asked if the chickens were coming in with KAJ labels.
He told me he has not seen KAJ for about 3 weeks, but the cases were marked one of 2 other variations from the same supplier.
I then through out my curve ball, “Then why are your chickes, that you packed here labeled KAJ if you are not getting KAJ anymore?”
He honestly replied, “Oh My G-D! I need to change that. I did not think of that, it is in the computer that everything from that source is KAJ.” He then took a marker and marked out the KAJ on every package.
all of you brought some clarity to the table and I feel that thanks to the person that wrote the letter shoppers including store owners will be more careful in the future so that nobody gets hurt
My entire family & I never eat fleishigs anywhere but at our own homes, bought from stores we regularly visit and know the shochtime personally.
The solution is not a pay raise.
What is the solution? A) Independent mashgichem, which means the mashgiach shouldn’t be employed by the store at all but by a private agency so there is no worry about being fired. B) Accountants that check the books, C) The same way packaging shows if it was made on dairy equipment, it should show if kulas were used in the manufacturing process. D) Shomrim, Hatzoloh, Chavarim etc… all work as volunteers we should do the same with hecsherim, the volunteers would have authority to go into stores if they see the lights on 2:00AM etc..
B”H
Is it even permissible to say the name “Alle and Vineland”?? After all, couldn’t one assume that the Rav in question had a good reason for not using them and that this may cause people to speak against that product as well?
It seems if you shouldn’t mention one product name, you also shouldn’t mention another.
Perhaps I am wrong.
to #23…the “diappointed shopper” did not mention the other meat brand name (hecsher) so why was it neccesary for you to inject a name(rubashkin)?maybe it was KJA,empire etc..
Yael, maybe you are right. Maybe I should not have mentioned Alle and Vineland by name. I thought it was okay because the only objection to them had nothing to do with kashrus, only a political thing because a certain other group was angry at Satmar for some incident which happened many years ago. So, they “banned” Satmar shechita “for their group” based upon their anger. It had nothing to do with kashrus, and is considered by many of their own today to be a silly, old grudge that needs to be discarded. Unfortunately, the vast majority of that very large group, only knows that they are supposed to eat “Only XXXXXX” … they don’t know why, and think that it is a kashrus issue. In reality, it never was a kashrus issue, just political stuff.
chesedname,
you have a point, and ALL of your suggestions are good and valid. But, they mashgichim still need to get paid more.
In today’s kashrus world, a good percentage of the working mashgichim are people who suffered some hard times in their lives, and were sort of “desperate” for income.
Here, in my area, most of the mashgichim earn $13.00 per hour, get no benefits, no overtime, no unemployment, and most are off the books.
They can’t afford to pay their rent on time, let alone a mortgage. The local Rav HaMachshir hates to hire anyone who has children, because he knows that they will never be able to pay for their kids doctors, and certainly not afford the schar limud for their children.
I know one very nice young man who really wanted to work as a mashgiach. He working close to 90 hours per week to get his bills paid. But his family was abandoned accidentally by this.
Bottom line, would YOU trust a decision made by someone willing to work for $13/hr with no benefits, no medical, etc.?
In many areas, when a person whose life crashed and burned, comes broke and almost homeless to a rabbi seeking help, the rabbi picks up the phone and calls the local rov hamachshir and says, “I have a nice young man here who needs a job. Do you have any openings?” He then is given the jobs no one else would take, and starts at $10/hr, with the hope of eventually getting up to $13.
You can’t live today on $13/hr, especially if you have to support a wife and/or children.
There is no problem with the rav hamachshir. The problem is with you. If you trust the rav hamachshir, he can bring any shchita he wants at any time. If you have a hakpadah it is your job to ask each time.
For those who are not well versed in hashgocha, today kashrus is second to a good name. If a hashgocha has a good name, they will be more lax in places that other hashgochas who don’t have a great name are more strict. This is not true all the time, but most of the time.
For those who don’t eat rubashkin and only eat alle. Stop and think – alle has one hashgocha the Nirbater Rov, a very good hashgocha. Rubashkin has had over the years 4 hashgochas. KAJ, Crown Heights Bais Din, R’ Weissmandel, and SBD. these are from 4 different kehillos. I am more cofident to rely on 4 over 1. Each one has nothing to do with the other yet they all agree on the kashrus. Also to those spreading who just talk, that is motzie shem rah on 4 hashgochas. I eat from both since they both have relibale hashgochas, but I challange anyone who only eats from one to tell me the differances THEY SAW between the two shcitas. Not what they heard 4th hand.
I’m waiting.
I have several issues with the letterwriter’s points. First,if as he states he was not relying on the RavHamachsher but rather the proprietor regarding his establishment’s schitas then he has made a grave error. A proprietor does not make specific commitments to customers not to use certian schita brands (excluding special orders), but only to follow the standards set by his RavHamachsher. Furthermore, this RavHamachsher allows items based on meeting specific halachic standards, not political decisions. If, for the last decade Rubashkin didn’t meet these, and now because of Rav Weissmandel’s hard work in his specific brand “Supreme” (which incidently is the only Rubashkin allowed but not mentioned anywhere in the letter), and now meets the RavHamachsher’s halachic criterea, then clearly a thoroughly researched decision was made. This RavHamachsher made many trips to observe the Supreme production and was secure that it now met his halachic criteria. Just as the RavHamachsher never publicly announced that he forbids Rubashkin, he does not have to proclaim that he accepts a limited brand (Supreme)of Rubashkin. And lastly, why is it shocking that the RavHamachsher would try to inform the letterwiter’s Rov how Supreme differs from standard Rubashkin and can perhaps be accepted by him, perhaps he was unaware of the improvements made by Rav Weissmandal and would now agree that it’s acceptable. I’m sure that if one asked the letterwriter why he does not eat Rubashkin, he could not give a halachec response and would say “my Rov doesn’t”. The bottom line is that when shopping or eating in an establishment, one relies on the consistent halachic standards of the RavHamachsher and not on specific ingredient hechshairim utilized there, as those are subject to change.
If you rely on ONE hashgocho on a business,then that kashrus agency is solely and fully responsible. You can’t have ‘multiple’hashgochos in a store. KAJ is V E R Y reliable and takes no nonsense from anyone. They must have exclusive control or they will not approve .Also,why does shechita have to be “chassidic”? Non-chassidim are very good and honest shochtim. Yashrus and kashrus must go hand-in-hand. If a butcher who is “Very” ‘frum’ takes in another supplier,no matter how reliable,he will lose forever the right to have KAJ’s endorsement. No second chance. No fooling the public. Everyone knows that KAJ is no longer endorsing Rubashkin,but also announced that it does not reflect on their kashrus. The Monsey scandal should have been a wake-up call not to be forgotten. Standards must be raised,and that means honesty,which,unfortunately seems to be ignored in some “very ‘frum'” circles. Can you trust everyone and anyone today? NO!
Feif Un,
Well said, we have so many experts about which shechitah is supposedly better, but no one can give any first hand knowledge of actual problems. We always believe the noisemakers but no one bothers to ask the kashrus agency about these alleged problems.
#36 DM, yes $13/HR is a problem.
The problem with the small salary is the main Rav charges nice money, but keeps most of it to make a living, and a store can’t afford to pay lets say $20/hr twice!
One advantage of hiring an outside company as i suggested instead of a “Rav” is $18 of the $20 can go to the mashciach.
from the Letterwriter –
as many understood and some commentors do not want to – the intent of my Letter is not kashrus.
Unfortunately, these forums become distorted as different bloggers have different axes to grind.
The intent was to publicise what a Rav HaMachshir and most if not all of his certified establishments believe they need not tell – that they have changed a many year long standard of certain brands of shechita only.
The consumer cannot presume what has been a given for years.
Some bloggers have commented that this may fall into a category of o-na-ah. As many kosher consumers will not purchase chicken or meat without knowing its origin – this may be so.
I know that the contrary bloggers would say not so with the argument that the vendor only represents whatever standard his Rav HaMachshir will allow. I sincerely hope they are right.
Two neighbors of mine have stated that their standards are dictated by certain of their married children whom will not – logically or not – eat from the other shechita that is now being sold in the neighborhood establishment – and are most simply disappointed by the lack of Notice.
The intent of my Letter in a public forum is to request the disclosure and transparency in a change of shechita – which we all know there is a sizeable minority out there that have their personal standard.
A Very Disappointed Kosher Shopper
The OU knows more about the issues than most but since they are”modern” and English-speaking,the “frum” don’t trust them. Since KAJ is non- chassidic,English-speaking,and the best,;the so-called “frum” look down on them. They are both the best!AND FRUM,too!They send their own supervisors and publicize wrong-doing and take away hashgocho when undeserved.
There is a very important point that was mentioned by DM in his Feb 18 5:06 comment. His Rosh Yeshiva had a guest that didn’t eat a particular shechita, and the Rosh Yeshiva winked at the commentor as the guest, who assumed the RY agreed with him, unwittingly lifted a fork of meat from the shechita he doesn’t use to his mouth.
There must be more to the story. As written, the behavior of the Rosh Yeshiva is inconsistent with the Ramo in YD 119:7 and the nos’ei keilim there.
Barzilai