Late Weddings: why do they get so late?

Many factors besides the Mesader Kiddushin can cause the badeken to be delayed. The caterer may not have been watching the clock. Close relatives (uncles and aunts of the chosson/kallah) being late due to traffic and the parents wanted to wait for them. Other Rabbanim who were to receive kibudim did not arrive. Mistakes found on the kesuva that had to be redone (was at 2 chasunahs recently where this happened).

Too much angst about the ehrliche cousins or chashuve rabbonim who somehow cannot ever seem to get their acts together, and allow enough time for traffic et. al. so they can arrive on time. Better to delay hundreds of people, stress out th already stressed chasan/kalah etc. and just get started rather than c’v having to explain to cousin mordechai or some rebbele why you started without them. Answer is simple, as we bring down from chazal, “TIME WAITS FOR ON ONE”…

@Joseph
Not Best Man in the goyische sense, but a trusted agent of the Chosson who handles little details and keeps him on track

There are other factors that make this situation problematic. At chassidishe chasunahs, there is this ritual called badchanus. This places one in front of the chosson before the badeken, and he can drone on with no one listening for quite some time. I was explained the reason for this minhag, to say דברי כבושין before the chosson to keep his focus serious and somber. Me thinks this could be accomplished in under 5 minutes.

At MItzvah tantz, we get to observe something very serious, where badchanim are instructed to drone on for endless introductions and eulogies. The longer the intro, the more kovod is believed to be given. I fail to see this as meaningful at all. Additionally, the amount of time taken to dance before the kallah is obscene, with every honoree cavorting as if engaged in some exalted exercise of דברים נסתרים. Then there is this comparatively new phenomenon of the chosson dancing individually with everyone, including the mechutanim, zaides, uncles, and VIP’s. The music is also expected to accommodate to play certain nigunim to respect each individual. Someone who is not invited to dance with the chosson is apt to feel excluded and demeaned.

I grew to enjoy the down time when the music rests, as it is so loud that socializing with anyone is virtually impossible. I know this delays everything, but I actually enjoy it more than the dancing.

It is a separate thread, but the dancing, and often the choice of music, are hardly compatible with a Yiddishe simcha. Someone commented than any menahel that dances to some of the music commonly played at today’s weddings would be a total hypocrite if he gave mussar or disciplinary consequences to a talmid caught listening to goyishe music.

Joseph
We took as many family photos as possible bf.
The chassan kallah took some private photos after. And we didn’t get every pic we wanted so some were taken after. But from end of chuppah till first dance was around 40 min.
I’ve been to two weddings this year were the first dance started 10:15. I usually leave weddings at that time so I made sure that didn’t happen.
I expected to get attitude from the chassan kallah, but they we’re surprisingly excited bc they wanted as many people as possible at the dancing so they wanted to keep the dancing as early as possible.
It’s amazing what becomes indoctrinated into our religion as “Halacha”. Not seeing the kallah isn’t Halacha.

mentsch1, the Choson and Kallah took pictures together prior to the Chupa?

Mentsch1, don’t call a Minhag Yisroel a made-up minhag. You can tell me it isn’t your minhag; but it is 100% a valid and holy Minhag Yisroel for many if not most frum Yidden and has been for millennia. (Meaning the Choson and Kallah refraining from seeing each other for X amount of time before the Chupa.)

Joseph, what is your source that is has been observed for millennia?

HaGaon HaRav Elimelech Bluth shlita, a talmid muvik of Rav Moshe, says in the name of Rav Moshe that before the war engaged couples did *not meet at all*, and that the current minhag of them only not meeting during the last week of the engagement is a new kula that developed due to yeridos hadoros.

Nisuin Kehilchaso mentions the minhag of a Choson and Kallah not seeing each other from the conclusion of the shidduch until the Chupa. His sources include Shu”t Maharshdam, Pele Yoetz and Elah Hamitzvos. The minhag of not seeing each other after the engagement is recorded to have existed in many communities at least dating as far back as 1228 and in Yerushalayim in 1730.

Rav Shach and Rav Shternbuch have said that engaged couples today should not meet more than once every three or four weeks. Rav Elyashiv ruled that during the seven days before the wedding the Choson and Kallah should neither see each other nor speak on the telephone.

The three children of Rav Yaakov Kamenetsky did not see their future spouses the week before the wedding. And a fourth, Rav Avraham Kamenetsky, reported that when he asked his father about speaking to his kallah on the phone during the week before his wedding, he was advised against it.

“The Little I Know” indeed knows very little.
Demeaning the minhogim of Chassidim – in crass, rude terminology – reveals that TLIK is a bor. In the CR, TLIK is a bor bi’rishus Harabbim. I don’t envy it’s oilam Habah.

Joseph
I retract my previous post
That said
As I mentioned, my position was due to seeing a magid shiur in a large yeshiva do so.

Joseph, it’s a minhag, not halacha. Until 150 years ago it wasn’t an issue:
A. No telephones
B. No easy transportation between shtetls, especially when they lived more than 20 miles apart.

LC, did you look inside? The Seforim HaKedoshim say they shouldn’t see each other even if they’re in the same town and close by.

At son #1’s wedding, the photographer was told to only take family pictures before the chaunah. After the Yichud room, I walk in the where the pictures are taken and see the kallahs family taking the same pictures they took 3 hours earlier with the chosson present. When the photographer gave me the prints, I told him that my other3 sons will be using a different photographer. They did and the photographer knew what to do.

BaltimoreMaven:

Your last comment is laughable. Perhaps another few words will help. Maybe not. I will not keep trying to explain myself, and really do not feel a need to do so. But her’s another try.

I will not divulge much about myself, but I am among those that strongly believes that a wedding is an incredibly important experience, most for the chosson-kallah, secondarily the parents and family, and next to other friends and family who partake of the simcha. It is (hopefully for the chosson-kallah) a once in a lifetime experience, and it has gigantic spiritual significance. That is very real, and not just a nice painting. The minhagim that are followed at simchos, each faction of Yiddishkeit as per their heritage, are truly holy, and connect today with the generations that preceded us. I am not in any way mocking or belittling a minhag. I have witnessed some minhagim that were novel, even strange to me, and I maintain the deepest respect for them. None of that is the issue here. I just addressed the ideal, and a goal of every chasunah. My complaint concerns the actual, which fails too often to approach the ideal.

I have paid attention to the Chosson sitting opposite the badchan. It is the rare exception that this environment involves the chosson crying and doing teshuvah. Mostly, they are noticing who enters, particularly close family and rabbonim, and accepting the wishes of mazel tov. That is not a bad thing. But they are distracted much of the time from the solemn experience that the minhag tries to establish. The length of time is an important factor. The words טירחא דציבורא refer to a reason to be מבטל certain things so as to not impose the time passage on others. Those words are as relevant to the simcha as to the shul.

Please look up the words ad hominem. They do not apply to a minhag. And I do not trash minhagim, just the practice of them when they are conducted in a manner that defies the purpose.

Mitzvah tantz – This is indeed a heilige mitzvah, and has become a serious problem. The process of badchanus has departed from the small ritual to the level of a professional performance. Calling up someone for the honor was once something that occupied a few minutes at the longest. Now, it can easily extend to a half hour. The content of recounting the lives of everyone, from the parents, grandparents, and converting a time of serious simcha to sadness is not what the minhag once was. It evolved into this. The honoree at mitzvah tantz years ago would dance for a brief time in front of the kallah. No longer. The tantz itself can lest several minutes. When a rebbe does this, I would hope and expect that there are heilige kavonos. But when every “Tom, Dick, and Harry” does this, we are observing something very different. Each honoree is now a public performer. That was not the minhag.

I am not trashing anybody. I am just pointing out that the minhagim of yesteryear have grown into something else. This something else takes an awfully long time. I may choose to spend my time doing whatever I wish. But I do not own the time of others. Making them stay up at my simchos because of today’s version of “minhagim” is direct conflict with my understanding of טירחא דציבורא.

I am not making fum or trashing. I would hope that the message that simcha is an emotion that bursts forth in a manner that follows tradition and heritage (and kal vachomer halacha). The trends we are observing are problematic, and deviate from what our heilige zeides and rebbeim established.

You may disagree if you wish. I do not intend to continue this debate.

A number of years ago, I was heavily involved with chasunah bands. I would be present at about a 100 a year. I was part of some chasunahs that for reasons unknown to us were delayed quite a bit. At some, there was a wait for some varied people to arrive. In the summer, a wait was common, as they were often waiting for past dark to start a ceremony. Here and there it was reported that a mistake was made on the kesubah, and it had to be rewritten. I was at some events where there were unfortunate medical emergencies that caused delays.

At one crazy affair, all began about noon…..with a FIRST cocktail hour, then string quartets played for quite a while.Later, about 4 or 5 pm, there was a SECOND cocktail hour, the affair was now on time… .but… after a so called final late dance session, the band was asked to stay and play another two hours. I arrived at noon, left about 1 AM…..

Back in the day, there was a very strict curfew in Lakewood….and the band was silent at 11 pm. The chasunah broke up shortly thereafter. If there was a mitzvah tantz, it was very short, and quiet.

Some mitzvah tantzs went on and on…. I remember one that lasted about 4 or more hours. As only close family was there, no one cared. As a few of the band members had to stay, to play a bit here and there, I finally left….after it was already light outside.

At a large affair once, all was on video and also separately recorded. There were many delays and it ran extremely late. There were multiple video and audio crews everywhere all night, calling the shots.

But….one affair I was present at, there was a quite short night, all was over well before 10 pm. It was a Russian affair, with a very small crowd attending. There were perhaps 40 guests in attendance.

Overall, most affairs were in the whole rather on time, maybe a few minutes off the schedule.

The minhag against groom meeting the bride, frivolous, right before the cuppah? Nonsense

The minhag of taking thousands of pictures of the groom and bride? Torah M’Sinai

Got it?