Joseph, mdd1, Et al
The discussion here seems to have deteriorated into a personal attack. In reality, my presence here is anonymous, being behind a screen name. I haven’t a care what anyone here thinks of me as a person, whether I qualify as a talmid chochom or not. My Torah and midos will be judged by Hashem, whose ultimate judgment matters. Go ahead and believe what you wish about TLIK. I am not invested in a popularity contest. We will all sleep by night and work by day. I do hope you all enjoy Avodas Hashem, bringing yourselves and others closer to HKB”H.
Next, for those who wonder about my gender, I am a male, married to a great woman. We have a great family B”H. I studied in mainstream yeshivas, and I have maintained a close relationship with several members of the hanhala of my alma mater. I am not sure what my style of writing says about my gender. I do have a college degree, and have written and published a bit.
It bears repeating that OTD kids who misbehave at home are causing the family, parents and sibs, great discomfort. No one suggests to be pleased with that. No one says a home cannot have rules or boundaries. There are two questions here, and I will support my positions. Is this child a choleh? Should this child be rejected from the home. I stated clearly for question #1 – yes, for question #2 – no.
Now for direct quotes from the “anonymous” Gedolim. Some quotes are translated and paraphrased, but I offer clear and precise references. I refer readers to a sefer published in E”Y in תש”ע called פרי הנושר. There are also quite a few seforim on the subject of chinuch that address our topic.
Here are some samples, with citations:
• Rav Tzadok Hacohen of Lublin ZT”L writes in the Pri Tzaddik concerning the “Ben Rosho” that we recite on Pesach at the Seder. He says, אלו היה שם לא היה נגאל to mean that at that juncture of history such a person would not have been merited to be miraculously saved. But once the Jews were liberated and left Mitzrayim and we were born as a Jewish nation, from then on, no matter how awful his conduct, he can never be detached from his Jewishness. This is true even for someone whose actions have been abominable. That is, in fact, why the Hagadah prefaces these statements with “ברוך הוא” because only Hashem can guarantee that no Jew will be spiritually lost.
• The Nesivos Shalom states in his work on chinuch that when one’s child begins acting out committing issurim, the obligation is “to control oneself, not the child, to shower the child with additional love, not rejection.”
• Rav Shteinman ZT”L (recording) stated that only being mekarev is appropriate for even those committing the most serious aveiros. We are to look away from the aveiros and embrace the children.
• Rav Gershon Edelshtein shlit”a (recording of Rav Shmuel Neiman shlit”a a dayan in Monsey quoting Rav Edelshtein) stated regarding a young girl who was OTD who was buying clothing that was not tznius appropriate that the parents should provide her the money, because that was where she was holding, and to preserve the relationship. Definitely not to throw her out. Rav Neiman also quoted numerous Gedolim that these children today are cholim, not baalei aveiro.
• Rav Shteinman ZT”L (A lengthy quote, translated) was asked by a parent who stated that he would rather his child die then to be OTD. Rav Shteinman’s response: “These people think that they are doing a tremendous Mitzvah by wanting to sacrifice their child just like Avraham Avinu did by ‘Akeidas Yitzchak’! But that is not the case! Avraham was asked to sacrifice his BELOVED child whom he loved more than anything in the world! If a parent is ready to sacrifice a child that he loves so much, a child that gives them great honor and is a tremendous nachass to the family, that is considered a great thing and is truly a sacrifice like ‘Akeidas Yitzchak’! However, if the parents are disgusted with the son because he is not going on the right path and he is a great embarrassment to the family, and that is why the parents are ok with him dying, that is not something to be proud of! That is simply wanting to MURDER a Jewish child because of their own selfish motives due to their own honor! This is not the proper way to talk about a child! On the contrary! The child must be made to BELIEVE that his parents truly LOVE HIM and that it hurts them to see their BELOVED child lose out on a life of real happiness! If this understanding – that his parents truly LOVE HIM – enters into the child’s essence and he really believes that they really love him now: THEN THE CHILD CAN CERTAINLY RETURN!!! It is true that it is a really difficult job, but that is the role of being a parent! It is up to you to daven, to ask advice and to try to do everything possible to HELP the child – not wish him DEAD!”
• Rav Dov Brezak shlit”a writes in his book “Chinuch in Turbulent Times” (p. 387) “Our spiritual leaders have tught us how careful we must be with our children’s precious souls. Contemporary giants no longer with us, including the Chofetz Chaim, the Chazon Ish, R’ Elyah Lopian, R’ Yaakov Kaminetzky, R’ Shlomo Zalman Auerbach, R’ Eliezer Menachem Man Shach, R’ Avrohom Pam, and R’ Avraham Chaim Brim, and those still with us, including R’ Shlomo Wolbe and R’ Michel Yehudah Lefkowitz, all say we must educate our children with love, not with harshness.”
• Rav Wolbe once came to the Chazon Ish regarding a difficult child in his yeshiva. The Chazon Ish told him that a yeshivah can be compared to a hospital; those that come there are not well and need our help. It is our job to make them better. (In Rav Brezak’s book, p. 412-413)
• Rav Ovadia Yosef ZT”L writes in his sefer Maadanei Melech (on Chinuch Yelodim) regarding expelling a talmid from yeshiva for committing serious aveiros. He quotes אין לך דבר העומד בפני התשובה. This perek is lengthy, and anyone interested in his extensive review of the subject should consult that sefer. He repeated the story from the Chofetz Chaim regarding a shiur he presented to an audience of Roshei Yeshivos. To one of them, he refused to respond, and turned his back on him. This was shocking to others who witnessed this. The Chofetz Chaim asked them if they heard of Leon Trotzky, one of the leaders of Communism. He was orphaned at an early age, and his mother sent him to the yeshiva of this particular Rosh Yeshiva. This lad was uncontrollable, and discipline did not help. Finally, he was expelled from the yeshiva. The mother’s pleas were futile. The Chofetz Chaim said that if he would have been mekarev this man, he could have grown into a great talmid chochom. Now he became a terrible hater, and murdered thousands of Yidden.
Plenty more, which I can supply in another comment.