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Especially after dishing out tons of money to get your daughter married
Maybe think about what you’re doing which causes them to be disrespectful.
Would you prefer I ask you how you managed to raise daughters who married such awful baalei midos?
This question cannot be answered in generality. There are likely disrespectful young men. There are also those fathers-in-law that fail to earn the respect. It is true that sons-in-law have the same obligation to be respectful of the shver regardless. But when the shver is making a claim, seeking this respect, the question must be asked whether he deserves it.
One would assume that Bnei Torah should know better. That is for an ideal world, to which we should strive. Sadly, the average Ben Torah is not provided the guidance to develop good midos. The typical mussar seder in yeshiva tends to be academic, not how to implement. This is likely the result of yeshivos being as large as they are, impeding the goal of providing individual attention to develop one’s potential.
If you are trying to control the lives of your daughters, You cannot tell a 20 something year old man how to act. You must earn his respect , by respecting him. And letting them be on their own and start a wonderful life together without YOUR GUIDANCE. Not long ago, try to remember if someone told you how to run your life? So stand back and try to shep nachos… You will, IYH.
Who is “they”?
If it is they, why are you focusing on your s-i-l rather than focusing on the disrespectful/it’s-coming daughter?
It would help if you provided more specific information. Some general things to keep in mind when dealing with others is that you can’t control other people. You could control yourself. Your thoughts actions and what you focus on. You could choose to be Dan lkaf zchus or not. You can give grudgingly, with no strings attached or not at all.
Respect is earned.
in what way are they being disrespectful?
“I actually think my daughter(s) are suffering from it”
Perhaps it is your s-i-l who is suffering from it.
These are ‘Bnei Toira’ ??? let them close the Gemora and go work as trash collectors. To honor one’s father in law is a chiyuv, and if one is a BEN TORA that is not a privelege but a mechayev. The ‘bnei tora’ need a lot of guidance.
Part of this discussion needs to be how to deal with invasive mother-in-laws.
The term Ben Torah is definitely a misnomer and terribly abused. Just because he had a’ price tag’ doesn’t make him a Ben Torah but rather a Bal Gaava’ its time to put things in it’s proper perspective.
One good turn deserves anoher. Tell the azaz panim that each time he disrepects his in-laws, there will be a reduction in the “support check” for the next month. Perhaps give some money to your daughter on the side soe the kids don’t suffer but othrwise, no need to finance your own misery.
More money is always the answer. Dish out more. Alternatively, knock your eidim silly with a rolling pin- it’ll put him in his place.
It would help if you provided more specific information. Some general things to keep in mind when dealing with others is that you can’t control other people. You could control yourself. Your thoughts actions and what you focus on. You could choose to be Dan lkaf zchus or not. You can give grudgingly, with no strings attached or not at all.
Respect is earned not demanded. And you can’t get everyone to like you.
My bone to pick is not necessarily about his respect to me as it is to my daughter! He seems to think that he can say whatever he wants and however he wants since there is no mashgiach in his life anymore! I see my daughter toughing it out and it hurts me to no end!
This is a generational problem. I’d never have spoken to my in-laws in the way that my son in law dares to speak to me. He went to the “it” yeshiva, despicable…
to yerushalmit: In order to discuss this one has to know what exactly he/they are doing that is disrespectful. I had an issue with my SIL and told my daughter exactly what was bothering me. I gave her the option of she talking to my SIL or I would do it. She handled it and the issue was resolved.
iac: In the new gen of chutzpa, what you did could result in your condemnation for “parental interference in the young couple’s lives”.
Joseph: The incident took place was in my house and my daughter was there at the time to see it and why I was upset about it. If people want to “condemn” me for it, oh well. All I know is that he has not acted in that manner since.
iac, totally hypothetical question, but if you had spoken to him about the issue and it didn’t help, what would your next step have possibly been?
Joseph: My kids know I can be stubborn and persistent. If talking to him didn’t work I would have discussed it with his parents.
kh; Does the azaz panim have anything to do with the azazel?
1. איזהו מכובד המכבד את הבריות
2. הבורח מן הכבוד הכבוד רודף אחריו
3. הרודף אחר הכבוד, הכבוד בורח ממנו“Respect is earned.”
Please learn thoroughly through the appropriate simanim in shulchan aruch and then come back and tell us if this simplistic statement is still true (my Rav said these words to me when I made the same comment to him).
Respect for in-laws is like Kibud Av V’Eim. You must do it whether it is earned or not.
Joseph:
You wrote: “Respect for in-laws is like Kibud Av V’Eim. You must do it whether it is earned or not.”
Except that for in-laws it is not D’Oraysa.
Technically, that is correct. One must respect in-laws. The issue here extends into the reality matter. One can fulfill the “respect” here by refraining from being disrespectful. In reality, we seek a goal of a mutually respectful and congenial relationship. That cannot be demanded. If it were, it would be artificial, and that would be obvious. It needs to be a genuine one, which is generated by nice feelings and behaviors that are in the proper emotional context. That cannot be demanded.
If we get hung up on the technicality, we will create a nice picture show, without the commensurate emotional relationship. That is certainly not the goal. I guess someone can choose such a scene, but I never would.
Sounds like a lot of people are quick to condemn. I get the impression the OP is concerned about the disrespect her daughter has to live with, not lamenting the lack of kavod she is receiving.
just reading through this thread, it seriously sounds like a partisan duel in congress. op should give specific examples,a nd others can respond. just name xalling and generalizations won’t lead anywhere.
just goes to show you’re better of running than browsing.YerushalmitParticipant
How about a SIL who thinks he can take over the time schedule in your house on Shabbos or demand list of other things….
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Do u care to elaborate. Its to comment with out having some specifics!Whats up with the anti-bnei torah? If you have a question about dealing w your sil lets discuss it. But cut out your negative feelings of bnei torah.
Yerushalmit: a guest should accomodate the host’s schedule. I would tell that politely to the kids. They might decide to come less often as he might feel davening in his shul/going to his shiurim is important to him too.
What do you mean when you say DEMANDS list of other things? You sound so angry I am not sure if the kids feel it and therefore do not respect you!
Yerushalmit: What do you mean take over the time schedule? I leave for shul when I normally do whether my SIL is ready or not. (BTW, my shver A”H never waited for me to go to shul as I generally went to shul earlier then him). If he decides to daven in another shul, I wait to make kiddush a reasonable amount of time just like I wait for my sons (both Leil Shabbos and Shabbos morning). If he does not arrive within a reasonable time (and the same for my sons) I make kiddush and he has to make his own. He holds 72 minutes after shkiah and generally says V’yiten Lchah before havdala. If i arrive home from maariv earlier then 72 minutes, I wait for him.
My SIL has not “demanded” anything so I am not sure how i would react if he did. I doubt he will since he seems to take after his father and I have found that he is not a demanding person.
I remember a friend telling me how proud she was that she accommodated all her SIL’s demands with their chumras over Pesach. She didn’t use this or that, not even for her unmarried kids…. I told her my SIL wouldn’t eat some things in my house, like things made with potato starch. And he was very insistent I shouldn’t make any alternatives or change my minhagim, he could see there was plenty to eat.
I thought my SIL was very respectful and hers weren’t. And he didn’t starve! (I did make some alternatives for him, because I wanted him to enjoy YT.) I certainly don’t think disrespect should be “rewarded”, but for sholom bayis I would let things slide.
“Whats up with the anti-bnei torah?”
I second that
HML: How was your friend’s SIL disrespectful? Her didn’t tell his MIL (according to your description) to accommodate his minhagim. She chose to.
Joseph: I read HML’s differently keying in on the word “he accommodated all her SIL’s demands with their chumras”. From those words I concluded that her friends SIL demanded that she accommodate his chumras. While I would try to accommodate someone it will not come at the expense of the rest of my family.
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