Would You Stop a Shoplifter?

Is the store owner a yehudi? Do you think the answer to that has no halachic relevance to your question?

There are a few reasons why you should protest the shoplifting, but they each have different ramifications:

1) Hocheach Tochiach es Amisecha: You are obligated to rebuke your fellow when he contravenes the Torah laws. Regarding something which is “mefurash baTorah”, we don’t say מוטב שיהיו שוגגים ואל יהיו מזידים, and you must rebuke him, even if you think it likely that he will not listen. This would obligate you to rebuke him privately.

2) Chillul Hashem – I think the earliest source for this is Rabbeinu Yonah, and it is brought by the Mishna Berura – you must speak out when someone publicly transgresses the Torah, so that it doesn’t look like you consent to what he does. This would obligate a public comment. However, if nobody else saw this, you cause more Chillul Hashem by saying anything publicly than by ignoring it.

3) Lehafrish Me’Issurim – You are obligated to stop a fellow Jew from transgressing any Issur. You may/must use necessary physical force to enforce that nobody transgresses a commandment (BB”K 28a). There is a discussion in the Poskim if this obligation extends to enforce positive commandments or only to prevent transgression of negative commandments (originally Ketzos v. Nesivos 3). If you have the capacity to stop him stealing, you must definitely do so. However, the moment he picks it up with intention to take it, he has already transgressed the prohibition; now there is only a chiyuv to return it.

I am not sure what the halachah would be regarding the obligation to return a stolen item – would that be classified under positive commandment (in which case it would be a machlokes Ketzos and Nesivos) or is it the same as a negative commandment because it is a תיקון of לא תגזול in the form of לאו הניתק לעשה.

Also, if the owner is a Goy, then although it is prohibited to steal, there is no obligation to return the item once you have taken it. Therefore, once he picked it up, he is allowed to keep it, unless there is an issue of חילול ה’ (which there won’t be if you are the only guy who has seen it and don’t plan on trumpeting it).

The Halachos of Macha’ah (which cases require a protest, what constitutes a protest, whether to protest publicly or privately) are discussed by the Mishna Berura in the beginning of Hilchos Yom Kippur. If I remember correctly, he is not consistent with his policy in Chafetz Chaim (question mark).

if hes a yid i would wrap my loving arm around his shoulder & tell him nicely that if he puts it back now quietly that i promise not to report him to the owner of store or police & it will stay between us for life & no chillul Hashem wil have occurred, otherwise he leaves me no choice for his benefit-so he never does it again-& my torah responsibilities- of preventing someone from sinning-but to report him to the owner & if necessary to the cops also.

Avi, truthfully, you should be the one that needs to bring a מקור, but I happened to find these.
נתיבות שמ”ח
שער המלך (פ”א מהלכות גזילה) בשם מהר”ם חביב
שו”ת הר צבי אורח חיים ב’ סימן ע”ד

Please cite your source for your contention that the thief does not have to return the object he stole from a goy. How else would he do teshuva?

He must return it because of Chilul Hashem. There is no obligation MiHilchos Gzeilah, though. See Nesivos 348 for further explanation. The mitzva of והשיב את הגזילה אשר גזל doesn’t apply.

(I don’t remember the whole sugya, nor do I have time to look at it now. There is definitely a discussion to locate source for the issur to steal from a goy – whether it is the regular לא תגזול (Rambam), whether it is a דרבנן (I think the Maharshal holds it is אסמכתא, and the Achronim are medayek that Rashi Sanhedrin 57[?] holds like that too), or if it is an עשה (See BB”K 113). It will make a difference whether you have a mekor for a chiyuv Hashavah. See the Nesivos, who compares it to הפקעת הלואתו.)

See the Rema here.

Although, the Rambam seems to pasken that you must return it, although it might be because of Chillul Hashem. Not sure.

The bottom line is as Yekke2 writes, that first we need to establish the מקור for the איסור גזלה, then see if והשיב applies.

According to Ramban even if there is no mitzva of hashava there might be an obligation of “keduushim tiyu” (see Be’er HaGola CM 348:5).

I don’t understand what you are quoting from the Meiri. If you quote his loshon, or provide a link, or explain in your own words what he says, I’d be happy to respond.

Yekke, you can find his opinion in Bet HaBechira on href=”http://www.hebrewbooks.org/pdfpager.aspx?req=40773&st=&pgnum=325&hilite=”>Baba Kama 113b .

This was also the opinion of Rav Kook (Iggeret 89), Maharatz Chajes (Tifferet l’Yisrael, Rav Shimshon Raphael Hirsch (<Collected ritings v. 7 “Talmudic Judaism and Society”, Rav David Tzvi Hoffman (Fundamentals of Judaism edited by Jacob Breuer ch. 8 , Rav Yaakov Emden (on Pirkei Avot 4:13), Rav Aharon Soloveichik ( “Logic of the Heart, Logic of the Mind pages 139, 151) and Rav Nahum Rabinovich, and Rav Lichtenstein in the name of Rav Joseph Soloveichik (Laws of Medical Treatment on Shabbat by Rabbi Dov Karrol, who all say that gentiles who have an orderly society are considered gerim toshavim. RAS adds that the mitzva of קידוש השם only applies where there is an ethical imperative to so act (קדש עצמך במותר לך) – we do many things despite the fact that the other nations dislike them.

Even if they are atheists?!

Is tochacha the same thing as stopping someone mid action?

RebYidd23 – There is a chiyuv to rebuke at all times, before, during and after the sin.

Where the source of the obligation to prevent a sin taking place comes from is a matter of debate in the Achronim. Many say the source is הוכח תוכיח.