26 Responses

1. Can anyone out there give a Torah response to this Rabbi Riskin’s approach, without all the rhetoric that tends to come along when talking about this issue?

   While I can’t agree with his stance, I cannot see how what he says is so far off the mark. That he doesn’t judge people and ask them what they do in their private lives, is something that we all take the appraoch to when it comes to virtually almost all other issurim in the Torah. Can anyone out there tell me why/how I maybe misguided?

2. my first time actually watching his video on yushka and honestly nothing he says is appikorses….it might be controversial to yushka a rabbi in our society but that is what he was before he went off the derech….just like yochanan was a kohen gadol before he became tzedoki….theyre role in the end does change the facts from before……maybe someone has a different perspective to enlighten me where I may be off in this thinking?

3. It is totally not my intention to defend homosexuality or Rabbi Riskin’s liberal views, however it is interesting to note that Tosfos in Sanhedrin 9b (s.v. lirtzono) in discussing if a homosexual is passul l’edus has 2 opinions regarding if we say that a homosexual is considered an onnes because of yitzro tokfo or not

4. Faith and reason, first, what he says that “ones Rachmona patrei” applies to this issue is an outrageous misinterpretation of the Torah. It does not. It is a prohibition as any other. Second, is also a very big prohibition ( chiyuv misa, be killed and not transgress). Third, the attitude of “I don’t care what he does privately” is wrong when it comes to any prohibition.

5. Red sock, Rashba has this question about all immoral relationships (including eshes ish). So? It’s only a question about being postulate le’eidus for other things, but they totally responsible for violating the prohibitions of immortality.

6. Mr Riskin is a pure toaivah ,look at that Yaishu face

7. To faithandreason and redsock. The point is that we SHOULD view homosexuality like other aveiros. Just because somone has a strong yetzer hara for somthing does not make it permissible because of “onnes”. It means that he has a test and he has to at least try to do the right thing each time. if afterwards he failed, we can’t judge him, maybe he also isn’t pasul leidus (not sure how we pasken). But that doesn’t mean that they can declare “I am homosexual and it is ok because I am an oness”. That is somebody who is porek ol and decided that what he is doing is permitted. This person is pasul. That is the same problem as conservative and reform. If someone drives on shabbos and just says, “it’s too hard, I am not there yet” it is one thing, but if he says “its too hard, so it must be permitted” it’s completely wrong. And definitly not for a Rabbi to sanction a union between to people who are basically commiting themselves to eachother in the future. I hope I adressed the points of confusion.

8. To say that this is an onus one could make the argument for any deviant behavior or any bad middah. A person with anger, is a womanizer…could claim they were under onus and therefore exempt themselves from punishment. This is a very dangerous argument because it would essentially exempt us from any bad thing we do.

9. As to the To’eivah issue, his words might be understood to allow people to go ahead with the act in private (though he initially forbids it), with such people saying they can’t control themselves. Although one can be an oness about a desire, he is required to control the act. The Torah does, after all, prescribe a punishment for the act. And that Tosfos in Sanhedrin is limited to not comparing such an act to taking money to testify falsely, with the idea that if the yetzer hara is stronger, one wouldn’t be suspect of taking a bribe to lie just because of his other behavior. Tosfos certainly says oness about other arayos, yet no one will say that adultery is okay because of oness. The use of כאונס with the כ is speaking of a specific context, not a license for anyone who can really control himself to go ahead with the act. Perhaps it is quoted out of context or I misunderstood, but there seems to be a problem here.

10. Does any one know what community he heads in Efrat? is he the only rabbi in the town? any Hisnagdus to him there?

11. Riskin

    Riskin and his ilk’ s religion is forever ‘evolving’.
    It is scary what he/they are going to come up with in 2018 .

    Let him and them throw their Chumash on the Floor and be done with it

    His claim of Oness is total garbage, and he is aware of it as anybody.

    For one, what about adultery,rape,,etc.,would he give same allowances ?? (wait till next year?)
    There should be more cases of so called oness in those! cf. study by Thornhill and Palmer, 2011

    Second , the whole
    concept of Yehareg V’al yaavor means just what it says. you must give up even your life if that is what it takes
    there is never a justification of Oness.iirc the Gemara says for z’nus even for less “Let him expire”

    Third ,Once they promote themselves , parade and force legislation ,they are forcing themselves on everyone else
    their goal as many articles ahve stated is to reduce everyone else at best to 2nd or 3rdclass members of society
    They’re Choteh U’machteh of the worst sort.
    Fourth,The Rambam states clearly there is no such thing as Oness for an (active) male by z’nus

12. F & R #1,

    Anyone else parading,foisting themselves on the public ?Turning their Revulsions into a virtue?
    When will people finally wake up? when their children come home proud to have ” joined the club” R”l???Too Late!!!

    What else in the entire Torah
    chayav sekillah
    ,and,Harog v’al ya’avor
    and,one of the sheva mitzvos
    and,You’re allowed to Rephl on the way before the act
    and, Is and never will be ever suspended (say,like murder for military judicial )?!

13. mdd1 ,
    that’s true, but we still do not have the same attitude when it comes to chillul shabbos etc. Granted, nobody is proud of violating Shabbos but the reaction of some is in my opinion, unwarranted.

14. Hashem tests us in order that we have opportunities to withstand temptation and thereby become closer to him. Hashem isn’t “out to get us”. It is therefore axiomatic that Hashem doesn’t give a person a test he can’t withstand. By definition, if a person has a temptation for something forbidden, then he has it within himself to withstand that temptation. (See the Ramban on Bereishis 22:1; there are many other mekoros).

    Thus if a person has a toeiva inclination there is no doubt that he can withstand it. We don’t know why a particular person might have that particular inclination; each of us has our own nisyonos. But we do know for an incontrovertible fact that if a person gives in to a taivo he is NOT an oness!

    Riskin is at best an am ho’oretz and his views have no place on a frum website, even as “comment bait”.

15. a few stories that should help put this in to contexy
    in the 70’s Riskin asked to have a toevah club in Lincoln Square, he responded with something are we also going to have a michalel shabbos club.
    my have things changed with him, the only question is this for money or lihahis, we should spread this to pastor John Hagee who Riskin is close to, he’s trying to schnur from both left Wing Jews and the Christain Right.

    but he has a long history and a story I wish that was publicized more
    One of the few times R Moshe Feinstein ever yelled in his life, was when rabbi Dovid Cohen from Flatbush was trying ally with riskin in order to make a smicha program that rabbi Cohen would oversee in Riskin’s yeshiva.

16. Mr. Riskin is not well. He needs a psychologist desperately. I guess he does not want to pay the bill for professional help.
    Even the gentiles will agree that this man is really not well.

17. It is Time for Truth
    Do you think though that people have that conviction in that they react with such vigor?

    Also is what you are implying that people can be of a certain sexual disposition because of their Hashkofas???

18. Wow. What a dangerous piece. Can you see how some readers cannot even see the faults of his reasoning? This is why YWN should not be posting the dangerous hashkafos of those who try pervery the Toirah.

    Let me lay down a few points, just so that readers are not fooled:

    1) “Oines Rachmana patrei” is an exoneration of punishment, it never permits transgressions.
    2) “Oines Rachmana patrei” refers to a situation which is BEYOND THE CONTROL of the trangressor – either because they were physically forced, or because they were in a situation of life threatening danger. Simple “taivah” – lust – does not constitute Oines.

19. Pirke Avos 1:11 “Avtalyon would say: Scholars, be careful with your words. For you may be exiled to a place inhabited by evil elements [who will distort your words to suit their negative purposes]. The disciples who come after you will then drink of these evil waters and be destroyed, and the Name of Heaven will be desecrated.”

    But first be a scholar!

20. faithandreason ,
    I’ve read your comments on other Jewish websites. All of your comments promote or defend toeiva to a point that I truly believe that you are of that persuasion. I wish you a refuah shelaima, a complete recovery, physically and mentally. It’s not easy being something or someone who you really don’t want to be. Based on your comments, present and past, on this site and on other sites, it is clear that you realize and know perfectly well that your actions are in complete opposition to Torah Law.
    May Hashem open your eyes and grant you the strength to overcome your yetzer hora. Teshuva is difficult but not impossible,

    As to Rabbi Riskin’s comments, I do hope that he fully recovers from his trauma.

21. To rabbi108300″
    “Mr Riskin is a pure toaivah ,look at that Yaishu face..”

    Are your really that ignorant and that much of a hater of another yid that you claim to be able to read inside one’s heart and head from a photograph?

22. f and r,
    Chazal say Dor shBen David ba will be either kulo chayav or kulo zakkai. Wise men have explained as we move towards the messianic era ther will be no more vague straddling of the middle. It will be clear and obvious which side each person will umbrella under. There will be only 2 sides, the righteous and the evil.
    Without a doubt when society and the powers that be promote something (whether behaviour or anything under the sun) people become more inclined to do it. The same when something is deemed “cool”. The opposite when that something is deemed aberrant. According to studies less than 8% of population have desires purely within societal normative “rigid” bounds. That means in all lilkelihood, your parents, grandparents,their cousins , and/or their parents,grandparents,etc.,etc. have had within some ‘inappropriate’ desire of some sort and fashion .
    DID they act on it?Would the world be the same place today if they would have ?
    To the often stated challenge: how bad could it be if they are not physically affecting anyone else?
    Many times a spy subverts and destroys a whole society without doing anything criminal at all.
    A Russian defector wrote in the ’80s that the Commies poured ten of millions of $ to build up and promote deviance since they understood that this will bring down western values and thereby western society.

23. The whole raison d’etre of the american revolution for the Right to revolt,destroy and kill, was an Appeal to a Higher Power.
    and the sames goes for that matter for the Balfour Declaration.
    If there is zero else than hedonism, then the whole existence of the US
    Israel,and much of the Western World collapse!!

24. Both the Written and Oral Torah are replete with examples of collective responsibility, and communal tribulation, for
    communal sins. Sodom, for example, was punished, among other things, for sins that were
    actively committed and accomplished collectively.

    An iimportant insight to add here is that, in the context of collective punishment, individuals
    may suffer more in that collective framework than they would suffer if they would be on their own, or at least, if they
    would leave that area subject to collective punishment. In such situations, individuals are subject to a higher level of
    Divine Judgment. Consequently they may punished for short-fallings that would normally not evoke such a degree of
    Divine Wrath. Without going into detail on this important, complex issue, suffice it to say that everything is done
    according His Infinite Wisdom
    Moreover, we ought to consider that after He has warned us, and we refuse to heed the warnings, we choose to subject
    ourselves to whatever communal punishments may be decreed for those in that location/ community. I.e., after a certain
    amount of forewarning, the subsequent punishments can be seen as self-inflicted.

    Sources:
    (There are exceptional circumstances, in which particular individuals’ flagrantly evil actions speak for themselves, thereby
    rendering the analytical process far less ambiguous.)
    See Rambam Hil. Teshuva 3:1-3; Talmud tractate Kiddushin 40a-b, for example.
    E.g., see Talmud Sanhedrin 109b, Rashi ‘Omer Lo’ re/ communal theft, in which every individual perpetrator claimed innocence.
    See Ber./ Gen. 19:4, Rashi “kol,” sifsei cha’chomim 3; cf. Ibn Ezra 18:26.

25. drugcommish in LA

    I’m honored that you took of your time to research my posts on other news articles. Like it really interests you what I have to say on the matter.

    And what if I am of that persuasion?? Instead of saying something like “i cannot imagine what’s it’s like and I respect you for your commitment to Hashem and the Torah” you say such mean hurtful and insensitive things. A part of hopes that your own…..
    You can end the sentence Yourself.
    Yea, i am hurt personally, thats all I can say.

26. The truth hurts…………….