In response to the Plesner recommendations for a chareidi draft, Rabbi Shmuel Baruch Ganot is threatening a chareidi economic boycott of chiloni goods, which he feels would not take too long until a collapse of the food industry is seen. Rav Ganot is confident that if such a boycott is launched, within two months time many food companies in Israel would collapse.
The Rav’s words: The time has come to stop apologizing and justifying and talking about Yad Sarah, Ezra L’Marpeh, Rav Elimelech Fuehrer, or about working chareidim. The time has come to sternly look the truth in the eye and proclaim “The true army is our gemara. We are protecting you and not vice versa.
We should have enlisted the best of our composers to create a song of protest – a catchy tune, clear and simple to drive the message home, the words from Meseches Makos 10:b — ‘עומדות היו רגלינו בשעריך ירושלים’, מי גרם לרגלינו שיעמדו במלחמה? שערי ירושלים. שהיו עוסקים בתורה
After playing these immortal words recited by Rav Yehoshua ben Levi, we then explain to everyone what בשביל שערי ירושלים means according to Rashi. We were saved at the gates of Jerusalem. There were no soldiers from Sayeret Matkal, Duvdevan, or even the Israel Air Force. There stood lovely boys in their twenties, avreichim in their thirties, forties, fifties and sixties and they learned torah.
After the economic sanctions begin we should respond with our own sanctions. It would suffice if all the chareidim withdrew their money from an organization, bank, checking account, a retirement fund, savings — and then watch the banks collapse.
It would be sufficient if all of the chareidi tzibur stopped buying chiloni goods in Israel. For two months just buy imports. That would surprise the food companies that would begin to collapse.
It would be sufficient to boycott public transportation regarding the thousands of lines. Let’s see how they do with a single passenger for each run. Egged would run into a major deficit rather quickly.
It would be sufficient if we all decide together, collectively, that during the two months summer vacation this year, no chareidim would book a spot in any resort operated by chilonim, no pools, no attractions and let’s see how well the Israeli economy will do.
Before you try imposing sanctions on us and grab our tax funds just because we protect and watch over you, it would be worth your while to understand that this time the protest will not just be in Meah Shearim but we will impose our sanctions on you – sanctions the like of which you have never seen because you bother us and our learning and our watching over you.
Perhaps we simply will stop buying chiloni Israeli goods and stop using the banks and perhaps we may just wipe out local tourism.
(YWN – Israel Desk, Jerusalem)
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29 Responses
great !!! More sinas chinom ! more division in our ranks ! Now, that would surely bring moshiach… preposterous…
No sinas chinom just emes talking.Rav Shach said in 89 or 90 if you draft Yeshiva Bochurim we will move the Yeshivas.
The comment posted was so hurtful and sad. A few weeks before Tisha B’av, the saddest day of our year, the day that breaks our hearts over and over again.. What we need is more ahavas Yisrael, not more sinas chinam! Hate begets hate. Not to mention the terrible unintended consequences of a collapsed economy, a chilul Hashem of major proportions. And as many have posted in the past, what’s wrong with service-There’s a whole lifetime to learn!
Sinas Chinom? These Zionist thugs are not our brethren. We say 3 times a day during Shemonei Esreh, Velamalshinim Al tehi sikva etc. Who is that brocho referring to? We have to break them, lower them, these are pretty harsh statements for our “brethren” no? But Chazal know better than you ignorant fools. Its our mesorah at stake and those that wish to break our mesorah and way of life, need to be dealt with harshly.
My first reaction was “what more hating…”
But after a quick thought, I think this Man is on to something, especially the argument “who protects whom”
The Chilonim have proven they don’t understand another language.
With regards to serving in a army: we find that in Gemorah Brochos 2.2 that the people would guard the city “V’Chetzyum Machzikim B’Rmochim” so the concept of having soldiers is valid
The thing is;
1. its the JOB of the Gedolim to say who should server, not the IDF.
2. The IDF as is, is not a place for a chareidi man
3. The IDF does not follow the rules of war guided by the torah! Case in point: the last Labanon war we lost SO MANY lives, because the IDF decided we can use heavy bombs, (what would the world say) instead they put foot soldiers in harms way. That is anti Torah!!!!
There is no distinction between the enemy wearing a army suit or the people in their land supporting them. And if there are “innocent” casualties because of a war,well, that is war!
One never puts their own children/soldiers in harms way to protect the enemies children (its absurd!) But the IDF does it, so why should anyone server in it?
This is not sinas chinom. Chinom means for naught – for no reason. Not applicable here. This is a war against the Chareidim, Yiddishkeit, and the Torah – nothing less.
They want to force frum Yidden into the army – then force them to mechalel Shabbos, hear women singing, and mix with women, etc. And the threat of the gov’t now is that if you refuse, aside from putting you in jail, we will stop funding all the yeshivos, Bais Yaakov’s, kollelim, etc. A war against Yiddishkeit!
Yes – fight fire with fire. A total boycott is the answer. They say frum Yidden do not add anything to the economy – what a lie. Now we will prove it.
Halevai, this was not necessary – however, we may yet be forced to move all the Torah centers out of E”Y c”v.
The situiation is sad – but we did not cause it to be so – the hateful chilonim did. The peacenik’s and the left did.
No – it is not sinas chinom at all.
TO #3″what’s wrong with service”
What about bitul torahin in the largest scale posible? this is a chilul Hashem of major proportions! See how all gedoily yisroel even from before our time were so strongly against it! Removing avriechim and bochrim lomdie torah from learning will cause Israel economy to collapse.
“The time has come to stop apologizing… and proclaim ‘The true army is our gemara. We are protecting you and not vice versa.'”
FINALLY!! What took so long?? That message needs to be broadcast ALL over the secular media (as long as they don’t twist it into something else!)
“The true army is our gemara. We are protecting you and not vice versa.” I do not negate the absolute centrality of Torah study and its role in protecting Am Yisrael. However, statements such as these and such as: “We were saved at the gates of Jerusalem. There were no soldiers from Sayeret Matkal, Duvdevan, or even the Israel Air Force” — which indicate a total negation of the mesirus nefesh and crucial role that our soldiers in Tzahal serve in the protection of Klal Yisrael — are extremely harmful and just worsen the view of Torah in the eyes of many. The source quoted speaks of “standing in war”. There certainly _were_ soldiers in the days of David HaMelech (which seems to the context in Makkos 10a the source for this quote) and the other kings and leaders in Bayis Rishon and Sheini. Let us not re-write history.
We should speak of _partnership_, not portraying Torah learners as the _sole_ protectors of Klal Yisrael.
“If not for Dovid (studying Torah) Yoav would not have (succeeded) in war; if not for Yoav (fighting the wars) Dovid would not (be able to) enagage in Torah.” (Sanhedrin 49a). This represents a partnership. [See also Yalkut Shimoni on Elef LaMateh — the source for the program advocated by Gedolei Yisrael to dedicate learning and davening for the zechus of a specific soldier during the Second Lebanon War and the Cast Lead Gaza operation.]
In my humble view, if Rabbanim from all camps would portray soldiers in Tzahal as doing holy work along with
Torah learners, this would help lessen the hatred and antagonism.
The same is true for Yissachar and Zevulun. We do not tell supporters of Torah — the Torah learners are the real cause of your success! We stress a partnership. The same should be true for Torah learning and army service.
to rabbiofberlin of course we fight with all our koyches against this its against the main point of yiddishkiet torah they are trying to stop us from learning and to comment number 3 (hb223) would you say dont take a lulav today or say krias shema because you have more time to do it vhigesa bah yomum vlayla nobady saying that everyone should be sitting and learning all but for those that do it we all have to stand up and protect that and to be מחזק תורה and nows the time not later
amazing what frum names the libs use? why do peple always get frum about the neg responses to chilonim? where r your comments to chilonim when they intentionally stir the pot with there sinas chinam?(woops! i forgot – its our fault that they act this way. we made a chilul hashem so really we r to blame) CUT the Baloney. the chilonim have tried to uproot yiddeshkeit for as long as they have been around- period
A great idea! Let’s go for it. As long as our Gedolim agree!
Next time you at at the kosel, please take along a Gemara for protection ans ask the security guards to leave.
The gedolim would never talk the way the commenters/losers are posting here. Shame on you
Time to unite all the religious parties incl. national religious…
I dont believe they will actually try to draft haredim forceably. It is the same talk and hate flag they wave every time before elections.
I mean really, does anyone have a clear picture of what things would become if they actually tried to do this by force?? What a laugh!
YOu are going to drag hardeim off to the army, or off to jail! You and whos army!!!!!!!!
To do such a thing, they would need enourmous manpower, and really, this is all fluff, and there is no will power behind it. After a few weeks of enourmous civil disobedience, the hilunim who are quietly watching these dreamers talk, well get vocal and say what are you guys on!
The army has been clear and consistent each time the elections come along and this is threatened, that they do not want haredim, do not need them etc. They dont have the will power the haredim can muster if they decide to try! They wouldnt last two weeks! The hilunim themselves will be at each other for starting up for nothing!
I think it would be healthy for the religious world to find out what they can do.
If they were pushed to this, they would quickly find out how much muscle they can muster. It would be healthy for the weakness of the hiluni world to be shown to their faces. It would be good for them to see, that they are not in control, and that their reality is closer to an end.
The religious world, is already in a position to start telling the hilunim what to do. They just dont know it.
Once the religious world starts to exert itself, we will have religious units, with proper food and mitsvah observances. We will also fight how we want to, and tell them how to fight. We will begin dictating how things are to be done. It is already in our hands, if we wanted to start. But we are not aware, and the hilunim will stupidly attack and falter greatly, and open our eyes.
This article is so to the point. I really agree that the nonreligous don’t understand us, they just hate us. They think we don’t contribute anything and they also think that they are stronger and they could technichally force us to do anything. This article disproves both arguments.
They also don’t need us over there…
BUT I’m not too worried because “In every generation they stand up against us and Hashem saves us from their hands”…
It is clear that many of the commentators have short memories. In 1929, arabs killed out the bochrim learning in Chevron. If they had weapons and training that would not have happened!It wasn’t so long ago that Jews were rounded up, put on cattle cars, and gassed. There is nothing wrong with all Jews learning to defend themselves and their families, communities and nation from the millions of enemies that surround us. In Israel there are massacres happening in Syria and Egypt daily. NOW. Arabs are flooding into all the cities here as refugees. Israel needs all the manpower it can get! If bochrim will enroll en masse, THEY will be determining much of what will happen in the army and THEY will be the influence on the chilonim-NOT vice versa. If the arab spring reaches Israel, chas veshalom, we can not rely on Hashem’s mercy and our Torah learning alone. We will have to fight back with weapons, and every man will be needed. Can you imagine thousands of chassidim flying out of Meah Shearim with Uzi’s? No arab will stand a chance! Now imagine chas veshalom that the arabs of East Jerusalem start flooding into Meah Shearim with Uzi’s tomorrow….I guess we would hope that the merit of the Torah learning will spare everyone-but would YOU rely on that if you lived there?
Error above…I meant to say next to Israel-not “In Israel”
We’ll see who merits what protection.
We, here in Israel, call it “Israbloff”!!
The army not only is incapable of inducting 60,000 chareidim, it doesn’t want to! They don’t have what to do with 60,000 unwilling, unadaptable frummers. The government is certainly not planning to donate the extra 100′s of millions of shekels necessary to provide all the infrastructure and extras that are needed too. So what are we left with? Israbloff!! Lots of hot air talk with nothing behind it….
It pains me to read the comments of so many american readers who from their comfortable armchairs, surrounded by their non-military children, have the chutzpa to agree with the Israeli bloffers. Besides the total lack of yiddishe hashkofas that I would expect to see on this site, the hypocrisy is sickening.
I understand the pain of a chiloni parent who sends his son to fight in the army, I sympathise and worry with them for the safety and life of their child. I only regret that these people do not understand or appreciate the value of limmud haTorah. The hatred that spews from the writings of some american commentators is pure sinas amei ha’aretz for talmidei chachomim and that is so much more painful. The Israelis who are fighting for this draft have a valid reason (even if misguided in my opinion), you americans are pure reshoim.
In response to most of the posters, most of them young and spoiled brats, none of you have an idea what the Jewish people has gone through in the past centuries, culminating in the Holocaust. It did not help the Polish Jews ,the Lithuanian Jews, the Hungarian jews and all other kedoshim that they had learned forever. It would not have mattered an iota in 1948 and afterwards, if the only thing that we had in Eretz yisroel were the gemoros. it is only because wev have an army, because we have soldiers who protect us, because the Arabs are afraid of our weapons that we are safe. Nowherv does it say anywhere in Torah that we should not fight or have an army. Moshe rabbeinu had it, jehoshua had it, Dovid hamelech had it and the armies protected the jewish people. Of course, it is with Syata deshmaya, and , of course, it is a “nes” that we were able to get back to our Holy land but nothing would ever had happened if we would have sat with our hands folded. It is right that every jew takes part in the defense of the Jewish people.It is a milchemes mitzvah.
This is a brilliant idea. Of course we should have the greatest reluctance to implement it; not only would it do such terrible harm to our brothers and sisters, it would of course also hurt us terribly. But that is the case every time one decides to go to war; war carries a horrible price even in victory, let alone the risk of defeat ch”v.
But the point here is not to actually go to economic war against our fellow yidden but to call their bluff The average Israeli has never considered how much he depends on the charedim, and how much he would suffer without us, purely in economic terms, let alone spiritual. Since he believes the zechus of our Torah, tefillah, and mitzvos are useless, he is convinced that we are nothing but a burden on him, and it never occurs to him to wonder whether that might not be true. But the leaders know the truth, and if we call their bluff, seriously call their bluff, they will quickly explain matters to their fellows and back down.
In 1929, arabs killed out the bochrim learning in Chevron. If they had weapons and training that would not have happened!
Quite possibly. And if they’d accepted the Zionists’ help maybe they would have survived. Maybe. But on the other hand had the Zionists not staged their demonstration at the Kosel the pogroms would never have happened. So it was a reasonable supposition at the time that if they sent the Zionists away the Arabs would realise that they had no quarrel with the charedim and would leave them alone. It took the experience of ’29 to realise that when the Zionists provoke the Arabs we all suffer, and the Arabs won’t distinguish between one Jew and another. (The modern so-called NK still haven’t learned that lesson.)
We should have been doing this for years.
“rabbiofberlin”, do you imagine that an army would have helped in those times?! It was Hashem’s will that those things happen to us, and no army would have changed it.
In any case, nobody is saying there should be no army, just that the Bnei Torah should not be in it. That is what the gemoroh says clearly, in multiple places; what right do you have to ignore it? Yes, an army is necessary, in order to implement Hashem’s protection bederech hateva, but it’s open kefirah to think that it’s the army that protects us. As the article’s author quotes, מי גרם לרגלינו שיעמדו במלחמה? שערי ירושלים שהיו עוסקים בתורה. How can you deny that?
Here’s a better idea, though: let 10,000 yeshivah bochurim show up to enlist, and call the IDF’s bluff.
Rabbi of Berlin: Amazing how a knowledge of history that you claim to have, can allow you to distort the emess. Perhaps learn a bit of earlier history like Shoftim and see how the necessity of war was totally dependent on the level of yiddishkeit. If the yidden did טוב בעיני השם then there was peace and no wars. As soon as they fell and acted רע בעיני השם the enemies attacked. The armies were useless until they did תשובה. This is the lesson of all jewish history. This is the lesson of the תוכחה both in בחוקתי and in כי תבוא. To even consider that the only reason that the arabs don’t attack is their fear of the army is so far from yiddishe hashkafa that I hardly know what to say to you.
When the רבש”ע promised that the עולי רגל will not lose out by going up to ירושלים and the neighbouring countries will not invade even though the area is totally deserted of all inhabitants, was that also because of fear of a non-existent army?
Are you aware that the army of Moshe Rabbeinu that you mention was made up of a few Gedolei Torah. Anyone with an aveira on his conscience was sent home…..? Same with Yehoshua and Dovid Hamelech. Was it the physical might of these few tzadikim that won the wars? Did the Warsaw Ghetto Uprising win the war?
Please think a little more before attacking all your opponents as “young spoiled brats” and realise that although you may be older, you might just be wrong.