In a 7-2 decision Friday morning, the Supreme Court of Canada upheld a $47,500 award to a Jewish woman whose ex-husband had refused to give her a Get while she was still capable of having children.
The Quebec Court of Appeal had overturned the original ruling.
The Jewish couple from Montreal were married in 1969 and who divorced under Canadian law in 1980. However, the woman sued her ex-husband after he refused to give her a Get in Bais Din for 15 years. She argued that without the Get, it was Asur to get married – thus preventing her from having additional children.
In 1995, when she was 47 years-old, the husband finally gave her a Get when.
At the core of the court case was the question of whether religious obligations should be enforceable in Canada’s courts.
The first judge who heard the case found that the case was justifiable in civil courts, that the husband had breached his contractual obligations and awarded the woman $47,500. However, the Quebec Court of Appeal overturned the ruling, saying the obligation to grant the woman a get was a religious one and was not a matter for the courts.
(Source: Montreal Gazette)
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24 Responses
Such cruelty. More has to be done about the plight of agunahs. These suffering women have to watch how their years are being wasted away, (often in their child bearing days) while knowing that they’re doomed to a life of misery. Abnormal.
Just curious where they came up with the dollar amount. For 15 years as an aguna, and not future children this seems mighty small!!
To guesswho
I will not comment on this case as i do not know the parties. I would like to say that women can do their share of cruelty also. Don’t always assume the husband is wrong
Ikar choser min hasafer.
The original civil divorce settlement included a condition/promise by the husband to give a gett. It was for breach of this condition that the women won.
It does not set a precedent for a standard case, and the court will not use this ruling to require, even religious husbands to give a gett.
Although i’m wondering why don’t lawyers argue that when two religious people marry we can take it as an UMDENA, presumed condition, that they have agreed to grant a gett if need be.
She deserves more money! her husband on the other-hand should suffer a life time for not allowing her to have additional children!
good for her!!! #2 is right!
Like it says in shulchan oruch – beat him till he says “yes”.
#7/chassi, Shulchan Orach does NOT say that. It says BEIS DIN may do so if he fails to follow BEIS DIN.
A man is not required to give his wife a get simply because she wants it. She can only demand it if he wronged her al pi din.
I just wish there were some way to force WOMEN to ACCEPT a Get when necessary!
There are serious halachic questions here. A contractual agreement to give a get could possibly render the get posul as a get meusseh. The same holds true of the threat of a large financial penalty for not giving it. Such matters must be determined by a beis din, including the wording of any such contract. Generally before a get is given beis din is matir neder on any obligations to give a get so that it won’t be considered forced. I’m surprised at the comments here which take the matter so lightly. Whoever does not know tiv gittin and kidushin should have no esek with them.
RE: comment number 3.
even if, (with multiple times IF IF IF) the woman may have been wrong sometime in her marriage under the abuse of this dominating sick cruel husband, he cannot honestly believe it excusable to torture her in such a controlling way.
Just because he married her 26 years earlier when she was at the young innocent age of 21 and he may have felt capable of taking advange and overpowering her then it doesn’t authorize him to ruin her life forever.
So all very nice to try and stick up for a possibly innocent husband but please suggest some more substantial possibilities to let us fall for as the one suggested just aint enough to excuse him…
May all those control freaks out there learn their lesson about taking the law and someones life and heart into their own dirty hands.
A M E N!
chassi, Shulchan Orach does not support vigilantism. It only applies if a Beis Din authorized it following specific prescribed circumstances.
“I would like to say that women can do their share of cruelty also. Don’t always assume the husband is wrong” THIS IS NOT DENIED, but fight out the abuse, cruelty, hatred and revenge AFTER the GET IS GIVEN.
I will take issue with those who made comments here that the husband clearly deserves what he got, etc or suggest beating him. Until you know the facts, you are in no position to give an opinion one way or the other. It may appropriate to say: “if he wrongfully withheld the get when he was halachically obligated to give it, then he deserves the consequences prescribed by the Torah, if he did nothing wrong or had a halachic justification to withhold the get, then he does not deserve any negative consequences”.
Saying anything else without actual knowledge of the facts is irresponsible.
This is not as wonderful as it appears on the surface.
Yes, we need to have compassion for any woman whose ex-husband refuses to give a get to. That is wrong any time.
But, here is the down side. For a get to be valid, it must be given by the husband without any legal or other obligation or any duress.
The creation by the courts of the concept that a man is obligated to give a get following a civil divorce puts a whole shaila on a get… Even when the divorce decree so stated!
There are some states, now unfortunately have have Get Laws, where the divorce decree can obligate the man to give a get. The problem is that such a get may be invalid! This would leave the woman as aishes eesh. If a get is given because a man is forced to give it, it is invalid.
This creates a problem as the women can now have a get, and remarry while she may in fact still be an aishes eesh, and her cohabitation with her new husband is now a super strong avaira and making her children with the new husband mamzairim.
I know of a couple of cases where the couple purposely went to an other state to go through the divorce just to avoid this shaila.
I am not saying everyone holds this way, but it is an inyan to keep in mind. Since this an aishes eesh having relations with another man is a “Yaharog V’Al Yaavor” situation, like murder or idol worship, this is a biggie.
Many applauded when certain states passed their get laws, while many rabbonim said, “Oy Gevalt! How do we do a kosher get now?”
It is for this reason, that when a certain lawmaker asked me my opinion on such a law in my state, that I said, NO WAY! If anything, I said it would be a benefit to have a law that says that any paragraph obligating a man to give the divorce is not enforceable.
Now this thing in Montreal is not making a law, Thank G-d, but is begins a concept of legal obligation for a man to give his wife a get, if it so states in the decreee. I am concerned about the halachic ramifications.
And… all these problems are caused by people not wanting to give the wives gittin when they really should have.
There is also a problem with some wives refusing to go for a get. Though that creates problems for her, it is less of a problem for the man.
But, please guys, if you are getting divorced, PLEASE give your wives a kosher get ASAP. There are many reasons for this, but one of them is to prevent the governments involvement, which could invalidate other peoples’ future gittin.
As for a woman who refuses to accept a get. If she is not frum, and remaries, chas vesholom, then the man get have beis din accept a get for her. This is done all the time. Since it is in her best iterest to have a get that will save her from this terrible avaira, the beis din can appoint somone to accept the get for her, because Zoichim l’adam shelo befanav if it is in his/her best interest.
The problem for the man is if the woman stays out of relationships with men. Then the Beis Din can not accept the get for her.
But, there is the Heter Meiya Rabbonim, but that is no easy matter.
Bottom line is any man or woman who gets divorced should immediately go with their former spouses to the Experienced Rov, and have the man give her a kosher get.
And… NEVER put the get clause in the divorce decree, as that can put a whole sheila on the validity of the divorce.
In this Montreal case, since he waited all this time, at the actual time of the get, it was clearly that he wanted to do it, for when he did not wish to give the get, he did not.
DM,
Like one of the other comments above pointed out, not in every case a wife demands a Get is the husband halachically obligated to oblige. In various cases the woman has no grounds for it.
“In various cases the woman has no grounds for it”. What normal person wants to continue being married to a spouse that demands a get, is it just for the tax savings?
bklynmom – No. But just because one spouse wants it does not mean they are halachically entitled to it (and this point goes both ways — with both spouses.) It may be best that they stay married.
The point is that halachically someone is not automatically entitled to a get just because they want it.
Doc,
You are absolutely correct. I am referring to refusing to give a get when they are getting divorced by civil law, and are already agreeing to that.
However, bklynmom is right. Who in their right mind would wish to stay married to someone who wants out of the marriage??? Oh, yes, I would agree to saying, “I will agree to give you a get and a divorce if we try counseling with full effort first.” I do believe it is foolish to get a divorce just because one person asked for it. It could be just a temporary complaint that could be solved, or even one person having their Yetzer Hora pulling them towards someone else. It is always good to slow down, do counseling right, and try one’s darnedest first.
But if at the end, she wants a get….Give it to her.
Though one of the writers above was right also. There are some cases where the woman is doing the mean/evil thing.
I know of a case in Boro Park of a couple with 4 kids. The marriage ended, unfortunately. They were living apart already. But for some sick revengeful reason she refused to cooperate with either a get or a divorce. In fact she threatened him that if he got a divorce, she would keep the kids away from her.
So, here it is 20 years after they moved into separate homes, and they still are legally married to each other. The kids have gone through much horrible turmoil due to this and the resulting anger.
In fact, the result was that the husband finally went off the derech, as he could not remarry, and was unable to fight his yetzer hora and wanted to have someone to love and love him back. He could only do it without marriage, and could not remain frum.
There were many other sick results from all this, that I will not mention.
Bottom line: Please let all of use try our best to love our spouses and make our marriages work.
Remember the person he/she was when we first married them … well that person is still there underneath the crap. And the crap is usually a shield against the conflict that has already happened. But, relationships CAN be renewed, and the crap can be eliminated, and couples who were ready to kill each other, could be happy and in love again. It is worth the effort. Every bit of effort we have.
But, if the other party refuses, or it simply does not work, don’t force this person you supposedly love to stay married to you. And don’t just divorce civilly, and keep controlling him/her by refusing the get.
What a tragedy. There are always so many ripples of divorce, none good. What astounds me is the level of cruelty two adults, who once upon a time cared for each other, can inflict upon the other. And always, the children suffer.
Nevertheless, based purely on what I read here because I have no access to the complete truth, it appears the husband was inordinately cruel. Having said that, there are no doubt other significant points we don’t know of.
Bottom line, folks…work at your marriages! Get all & any help, & fight tooth & nail FOR each other, not AGAINST each other. And if there’s nothing to be done, bow out graciously. Remember, you loved him/her strongly enough once to marry.
Bravo, DM, bestbubby and others who say people should work on their marriages with everything they’ve got.
I am truly elated that “illini07” has an inside ear to the Beis Din Shel Maaleh, and can judge based on hearsay alone!
I just want to emphasize what others here have pointed out ..that the women can many times be the control freak spouse and the one who feels she has to get revenge on her husband (ex) and I have unfortunately been exposed to cases where the woman has created false allegations on her husband etc… so you never know the reasons why one may not be proceeding with the get, the woman may be refusing to go to Beis Din ..there are often other issues that need to be worked out first such as children, visitation/custody …If people need to get divorced why cant they do it in a mentchlich way ?!? People in our supposedly “frum” circles are creating hollywood types of divorces ! The children always end up being the ones who suffer the most ! People save your marriages & be careful what you look for when your dating!!
very accurately and eloquently put #25. In my limited knowledge of these things, I have sadly witnessed just that.