IDF Military Advocate General Brigadier-General Sharon Afek has become the first senior IDF officer to reveal he is a member of the toeiva community, hoping to show others the military in Israel does not have a ‘glass ceiling’ to persons with different orientation.
The senior officer made his statements in an interview with the Israel Bar Association Journal. He explains that as a young officer, he had fears this would interfere with his career but now announced in the IDF “There is no glass ceiling”.
Brig.-Gen. Afek explains that for him, he is proud to serve as an “example” R”L, hoping many members of Israel’s toeiva community will opt to join the military amid an awareness that their lifestyle will not work against them.
(YWN – Israel Desk, Jerusalem)
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58 Responses
i’m sure general afek is very proud to be part of the “abomination (toeiva) community”. in fact, he is so proud that he ‘s not even embarrased to announce it! what’s happening to us? Ribono Shel Olam……HELP!!
Oh come on. He didn’t say “I am a member of the toeiva community.” This article makes it sound as if he did.
The discussion on homosexuality unfortunately lingers more on the act and less on its consequences. Homosexuality is a negation of the family and the family is the fundamental unit for the continuation of the human race. A homosexual has no commitment to the continuity of the human race. Should such a person be in a position of authority? Can the judgement of one who can not see beyond his own life and has not commitment to the future of children be trusted? Furthermore, it is unlikely that he is the only one in the IDF. How many other senior officer in the IDF are also homosexuals? Such people have no commitment to the existence or continuity of the Jewish people nor to the human race for that mater. How can their judgement be trusted? Are they not the very ones who have initiated all the bizarre changes in the IDF over the past few years? Are we not being lead to disaster by people with a twisted and distorted perception of reality?
He is announcing it just now, because after both Parshiyos of last week, both Acharei-Mos & Kedoshim which both decry this despicable act, he knows just how wrong he is, but wishes to show it off.
“persons with different orientation”? NO! IMMORAL PEOPLE in Israel’s army who should be ashamed of themselves. Hashem yerachem! B”H for Gedolei Yisroel who strongly condemn joining this immoral anti-Torah army.
So how can the Israeli government force a Ben Torah to close his Gemorah and join a group of perverted sinners? Last week’s parsha.
Will they have a “don’t ask don’t tell” policy or will they now be a light on to the Nations and purposely promote and encourage such acceptance? Pheh.
#4 NGI, that is why Rabbi Auerbach’s protests are Milchemes Mitzvah and a Kiddush Hashem berabim.
May Hashem protect us as he always does when we have such evil people in the leadership of the army.
Back to basics (and reality) we are in galus, in America, in France, in Argentina etc and in Eretz Yisroel. The IDF is not the army of Dovid haMelech, what exactly is anyone expecting? There is a huge outcry when it comes to homosexuality, not so much when it comes to chillul Shabbos which is a much much bigger problem in the IDF by far. #3- it appears from his position and rank that yes they can do the job. Btw gaiveh is also toevah.
I don’t care if the editors don’t publish this, as long as *they* read it.
If you want to be meduyak with the Loshon of the Toyrah, Toieva with reference to homosexuality only refers to the act, not to the individual, as such, its *nonsensical* to call it a “Toieva community” as you did in the headline – it only shows ignorance and a misunderstanding of the specific leshoynos of the Toyrah. On the other hand, people that cheat in business are themselves referred to by the Torah as a Toieva, so for example the minyan learning daf yomi in jail, because they were found guilty of white collar crimes could be accurately described as a Toieva community.
I know that this language is already standardized in these forums, but isn’t better that you accurately reflect the Loshon of the Toyrah, rather than sheepishly following this embarrassing misuse of the term.
Most Israelis are secular, and being “gay” isn’t a problem for the seculars, either in Israel or America. There are no ceilings for hilonim in Israel – its there country, and what behavior is better proof that you have thrown off the yoke of Torah and are truely part of the “Am Hofshi.” From Frum (i.e. hareidi) Jews, the ceiling is a lot thicker and more opaque than glass. If he revealed he was secretly hareidi, that would really destroy his career.
This general has done more for the Jewish people than any of you will ever do, stop judging people and act like real jews by making the world a better place.
I’m not sure why this is news worthy for a website such as The Yeshiva World. I obviously don’t condone the decision by this military official to announce to the world his disposition, and more broadly I don’t condone a group of people forming a community based on orientation.
I nonetheless feel very strongly that whenever this issue comes up, in any context, people espouse extreme ignorance and quite frankly are inadvertently hurtful. Because they often refuse to acknowledge this issue as being a challenge and out of irrational zeal say things that would never be said about any other group of people who are openly violating aspects of the Torah.
Granted, there are no groups of people who are proud of being Mechalilei Shabbos, or Boyalei Niddah, nonetheless as a community we ought to all ourselves if we really have Kvod Shamayim in mind, or are we just uncomfortable and fearful because of cultural reasons and not related to our commitment to Halacha.
Reply to Aryeh Zalenko: A senior member of the IDF is surely committed to the future of Israel and the Jewish people, regardless of his sexual orientation (or, if you prefer, disorientation). How committed to the future is a frum father of 8 who never learned a marketable skill and must rely on the charity of taxpayers and others?
There’s a vast difference between toevah of gaaveh and toevah of a menuvel, immorality, aka “persons with different orientation”. A menuvel is CHIYUV MISA and there’s no heter for it. A baal gaiveh is not in the category of a menuvel and no punishment is mentioned. One can have gaiveh for kedushah like being proud of being a Jew. Neither is cheating in business, or chillul Shabbos in the category of menuvel nor chiyuv misa.
These menuvalim, although they can physically do the job, are endangering the army and endangering Israel since they have no siyatta Dishmaya because Hashem hates immorality. It defiles the land, for which the Torah says “the land vomits out its inhabitants.”
@somesenseinabadworld
All of “us” did more for “more for the Jewish people” than this guy just by getting up this morning and saying Moda Ani.
The thing that amazes me the most are the comments on this thread
I just love how you guys are constantly worrying about how to stop kids from going off the derech(otd)
Look at yourselves
What ever happened to the concept of דרך ארץ קדמה לתורה?
Since when do we get to prioritize the Torah and get to pick and choose what is ‘important’ and what ‘isnt’
I’m not asking any of you guys to go to the army
I’m not upset either
If you are actually real and think that your learning is real and is making a difference then go ahead and do it
But I bear in mind
The reason that so many kids go otd isn’t because they don’t believe in the Torah
Its because they are simply disgusted by the way you guys examplify it
All they want to see is
“practice what you preach”
If you believe so much in what you’re doing then go ahead and do it
But please don’t sit around and be keyboard warriors and post what you want because a you’re basically anonymous and b your community also supports this
How is this an embarrassment to the idf?
How is this guy any worse then the boy sitting and learning
Not everyone can do the army and that’s OK
But since when does your preference of gender or your live style choices undermine that this man has spent decades defending your kids in yeshiva/seminary
Your newlywed child
Your grandchildren
Your country and heritage etc etc
So yes while I agree that maybe it isn’t proper to do it in the way he did
You me and everyone else cannot say anything
Because this man deserves a round of applause for this service
And if you’re so set on these twisted ways
Just remember we all go up to God eventually
And while God can (and usually does) forgive or understand why you desecrated his laws בין אדם למקום
He does not forgive בין אדם לאדם
To summarize
I’m not trying to change any of you
(I’ve long since realized it’s easier to just remove myself then spark endless arguments and unwanted hatred for something I love)
Simply stated live and let live
And maybe when all you tri-state folks finally realize this
Maybe just maybe we’ll be zoycheh to see משיח once again
@Arye
You are saying something extremely ignorant, and you are remarkably arrogant as to claim that you know what Hashem’s intentions are. I’m not CSV’h condoning this activity. But there’s a difference between individuals as people and Yidden, and the aveiros that they may be engaging in. How about all other things that the Torah demands of us??
The Torah calls male homosexuality “an abomination.” It is abominable anywhere in Hashem’s world, but all the more so when it occurs in the King’s Palace, in Eretz Yisroel. This piece of filth is a greater “threat to national security” of the Yidden in E.Y. (and probably the entire world) than Iran, ISIS, and North Korea together!
Faith, had you been a bit more educated, you’d understand that shmiras habris is one of the most important things in yiddishkeit. There’s no sin as severe as immorality and, by the way, a Jew should be proud of the Torah laws, and act accordingly. A Jew who knows what Hashem despises and he also despises it, follows Hashem’s path.
Arye, firstly I never said that we should not be proud of the Torah laws, much less that we shouldn’t follow them. I’m saying that we should be careful how we talk about PEOPLE. Chazal tell us אל תדין את החבר עד שתגיע למקומו. Do you not aspire to live upto that principle? It is an aveira chamurah, no question. It is though on par with other Isurim which people don’t seem to get do riled up about.
Wow. “A homosexual has no commitment to the continuity of the human race” and they ‘are endangering the army and endangering Israel since they have no siyatta Dishmaya.”
Siyatta dishmaya doesn’t necessarily remove one’s orientation and many homosexuals want to have children.
You confuse cause and effects.
It’s easy to disdain “them” and think that “they” are simply immoral and choose to be so.
You apparently think that “they” are abnormal without realizing how many are in our community until they are forced out or commit suicide.
Shlomo2, thank you for being a voice of sanity. You seem to be someone who gets it. People get so riled up without any understanding. As I posted previously, it has little to do with Kvod Shamayimand commitment to halacha. Its fear ad discomfort due largely to cultural reasons.
I’m sorry, Faith, immorality is 100% not on par with other isurim but much much much worse! It’s the severest sin in the Torah since it’s the only sin that the Torah calls abomination that includes a severe punishment. Educate yourself on this topic before posting.
Arye, I’m not referring to sin, but I’m talking about people. Clearly you along with many others don’t understand the issue.
Faith, the topic here is “boasting immorality” and “persons with different orientation” in the army. Guys like Afek should not be a General but should go for help.
And Shlomo, yes, they choose to do so if they don’t go for help and have the chutzpah to openly be proud of it.
Hashem calls this form of depravity ABOMINATION. All attempts to sidtrack this by introducing other “humanitarian” considerations is rubbish. As is trying to persuade us that “they did not choose to be this way,” etc. The Torah doesn’t subscribe to this, or any other idiotic notion of political correctness. It is an abominable kind of wickedness that is spread by suggestion, that spreads excessively when people have too much free time of their hands. Hashem destroyed Sodom and Amora because He doesn’t allow such things in E.Y. And this business about wanting children? If they really did, they wouldn’t behave the way they do. Instead they have to adopt children, and are clamoring to force the Israeli govt. to “recognize” the adoption. That theirs is a legitimate “family” like any other family.
One final word. Those who really want to spout doctrines legitimizing LGBT behavior, can prbably find plenty of websites for that. YWN is a frum website. It might have been smarter not to publish the article about the Brigadier-General altogether, thus obviating the need for the entire discussion and the various comments.
NO BODY ANALIZES, HOW COULD IT BE THAT A JEW BRIGADER GENERAL; CAME TO SUCH A MATZAB??
LETS NOT FOOL OURESELVES; THE ANSWER FOR THIS AND MOST OF OUR GENERATION’S TRAGEDIES; LIKE THE BURNING OF SO MANY YIDIM’S NESHAMAS (GOING OFF THE DERECH) IS:
THE YETZER ARAH WITH HIS NEW WEAPON, AN ATOMIC BOMB, NAMED “NOT PROPER FILTRED CONNECTTION TO THE INTERNET”.
@arye….. You said “God hates?” That’s very human of him. Personally, I’m a in favor of this move. Their should not be a reason why someone should be afraid to be themselves. Hopefully acceptance will grow within the hareidi community. We should try to be a light unto other nations and open doors for all people…. not just the people like us.
Arye. What does not being a general and going for help have anything to do with eachother? It’s clear from your comments that you condemn the person independent of any sin. That is very unfortunate. I’d love to have a dialogue with people such a yourself, and point out to you how your viewpoint has nothing to do with Kvod Shamayim, and encourages a tremendous amount of ignorance and pain.
american_yerushalmi, you are so remarkably ignorant. You are in the category of what Chazal say תלמיד חכם שאין לו דעת נבלה טובה הימנה.
No more gold stars when you rank.
Only purses.
If Hashem hates homosexuals just for being homosexual, why did He make them?
(Simply being so is not in a person’s control. People are responsible for their actions, not their natural state of being.)
Faith, would a kleptomaniac brag about his inability to refrain from the urge for stealing? Would he be made a General? Would you allow kleptomaniac parading the streets boasting their “life style” or would you chase them out of town with shame and tell them to keep quiet and go for help? Immorality, which is far worse than theft according to Torah should be treated at least with the same revulsion as kleptomaniacs, if not harsher, and should definitely not be praised and supported and made Generals. If they can’t control their yetzer hara like other men, they should hide their heads in shame, go for help and not boast about it.
In the time of the Bais Hamekdash – may we merit seeing it rebuilt bimherah – and there was Torah law in Israel, if a person like this menuvel would commit such toevah, if he was warned by witnesses properly according to halachah and witnesses testified that he committed this immoral sin again, he would have been killed by Bais Din who wouldn’t give a hoot about his problem not being able “to control himself”. In other words, according to Torah law all these explanations and excuses and political correctness would fall away and considered nonsense.
For Jews the transgression of immorality is even worse because Jews are a Holy Nation and are commanded (Vayikra 19:2) “kedoshim tihyu ki kodosh ani Hashem elokeichem – you shall be holy for I, Hashem your L-rd, am holy” and as we say in Krias Shma, “vihyisem kodeshim leloKeichem – to be holy to your G-d” and not wallow in tuma and filth.
RebYidd, firstly, Hashem did not make them. Period! Hashem created the yetzer tov and a powerful yetzer hara and we humans have the bechira, the choice. If a person commits evil, it’s his choice.
Arye, you precisely proved my point. By comparing people with different dispositions to kleptomaniacs you are saying that society shouldn’t tolerate the advertising of their feelings because its not something that one should be proud of. I don’t disagree with that. But what does that have to do with any sort of issur per se??
Of course I agree that it’s hashkofically wrong for one to” come out” and be proud of their challenges in these areas. But the rhetoric around this issue, is remarkably insensitive and causes alot of pain, and even R’L can cost lives.
I’m telling you I am knowledgeable about this issue and you haven’t any idea how wrong you are. Many genuine Talmidei Chachamim who are in the know, don’t say the sorts of things that you and many others say. I don’t think I could make myself much clearer on a public from than I have.
RebYidd, according to you (and some others here) judicial courts should not punish thieves and murderers, after all they are born with this desire, no? Does it make sense? Are you going to tell me that all erliche yidden who have yiras Shomayim who refrain from all these abominations do not have a yetzer hara for this and are not born with it? Were they born immune from all this immorality? This proves to us that if there’s a will there’s a way. The problem with these people is that they want to go after the desire of their hearts with excuses. The Torah says “velo sosuru acharei levavchem ve’achrei eineichem – do not follow the desires of your heart and eyes.” That is why we are a Holy Nation. Just like alcoholics who want to refrain from their problem go to experts, so should these menuvalim realize they are GUILTY with an explanation and need to seek proper experts to help them and act like all yirei chet, fear of sins.
You probably won’t print this but it needs to be said.
Hypocrites, Hashem made him that way. Stop talking like you are cavemen! Shocked and disgusted that theyeshivaworld has gone down to such levels, even the headline is not fitting for a respectable media source. I would say this article is a Toievah. If the comments here are inductive of the mainstream orthodox world, then we are pretty messed up. Shame on you haters. People are born this way and he is trying to encourage others not to be ashamed because they are routinely attacked by people like you. Kol Hakavod to him. Good Shabbos.
Kleptomania is not the same as stealing. According to you, Arye, all people who have kleptomania should be punished before they commit a crime just because they have the potential to do so?
I suppose that, according to some of the “sages” commenting here, we ought not hate the Nazis, because Hashem made them do it. Or at least created them with the disposition to commit genocide. “It was altogether not their fault.”
american_yerushalmi, your ridiculous comparison to Nazis, only demonstrates how remarkably ignorant you are. Ignorance in itself is not a criticism, but being willfully ignorant is.
American_yerushalmi, I don’t believe it is a choice because if it were a choice, I would be able to decide to be that way if I wanted to. I can’t. So why should I think that they could choose not to be.
Faith, I’m getting the picture now. Anyone who dares disagree with you is an ignorant jerk. End of discussion.
I think your persistent ad hominum insults without providing any sort of rebuttal proves who is indeed the real ignoramus. I’m sure you feel you are putting forth logical arguments. I leave that for the other commenters (and the mods!?) to decide.
Faith, maybe my ignorance is not willful Maybe I can’t help it …..
If Hashem “made him” that way, why would Hashem only make menuvalim that way and not make G-d fearing people that way?
If a “menuval ‘rabbi'” now comes to your mind, it’s an oxymore like a “Jewish Xtian”, or a supreme judge who’s responsibility is to enforce the laws but publicly and continuously flouts a law and boasts about his transgression.
BTW, why would the public not apply the excuse of “Hashem made him this way” to thieves, murderers and the likes?
american_yerushalmi, I never described people who disagree with me as jerks. That’s your addition to my contents. Ignorance just means being unaware or uneducated with regards to something. As such, saying that someone is ignorant isn’t per se a criticism. I’m sure we’re both ignorant with respect to any number of things. I’m certain that if someone can appeal to your middos harachmonus, then you’d open up your heart and mind.
Faith, if this individual committed an act that the Torah considers a capital crime, do you think the Sanhedrin would listen to appeals to their midas ha’rachmonus?” You already know that “ein me’rachamim ba’din,” applies to such situations. They are drilling a hole in our collective lifeboat, something that threatens not only Klal Yisroel, but the entire world. Like what happened in the dor ha’mabul. Indeed, I have much rachmonus — on the world that Hashem created, and on Klal Yisroel. Although this sort of behavior is abominable anywhere in the world, it is particularly contemptible and dangerous to Klal Yisroel when perpetrated in Eretz Yisroel. See what the Ramban writes about Sodom and Amora in Bereishis and at the end of Acharei Mos for a refresher. It’s true that my avairos also endanger Klal Yisroel, but the Torah specifies that there are levels. At least I admit it, and am not trying to enlist misplaced sympathies based on foolish and goyish “political correctness.” When was the Torah ever politically correct? When dealing with the Canani, and the Emori, or maybe toward the decadent Greeks and the depraved Romans? We have always been on “the other side of the river.” By upholding morality we are upholding civilization and indeed the entire world.
Iin secular law, there are misdemeanors and felonies, and sub-categories therein. The Torah considers arayos, including male homosexual acts, to be among the absolute worst avairos a person can transgress. I am merely repeating the Torah’s words condemning those who endanger my people.
american_yerushalmi, I don’t disagree with anything that you say. I’m not a modern orthodox Jew trying to mold halacha in accordance with human logic. I just think that the rhetoric around this issue could be misunderstood, often to the detriment of individuals. I invite to to have am email correspondence with you regarding this topic. Honestly, let me know if you are interested, and I’ll provide you with an anonymous email.
I”m certainly willing to correspond, but in the past the mods haven’t allowed this. There’s a policy about not giving out email addresses. You can try. If you get through, I’ll bl”n reply.
american_yerushalmi, rationaljews@
groyse menshen and intellegent. laymen, understand the challenge. That’s all I can say.
american_yerushalmi, Do you not get it?
“If Hashem “made him” that way, why would Hashem only make menuvalim that way and not make G-d fearing people that way?”
Circular reasoning right there. If you believe naturally having homosexual urges in itself makes someone a menuval, of course only menuvalim are that way.
(You compared this to being a thief or a murderer. It’s not the same thing. A homosexual is someone with the urge to commit certain acts. A thief or murderer is someone who does them.)
RebYidd, G-d fearing people and many/most men, even the biggest tzaddikim have these natural urges and strong yetzer hara, but they know that it’s against Torah law so they control it. Men who have no intention of controlling this natural urge and don’t give a hoot what the Torah says and publicly boast about it are menuvalim. Menuvalim are not “born that way” they became that way esp. because they get loads of support for it.
Just like those who have natural urges to steal are thieves and those having natural urges to kill people are murderers, they weren’t “born that way” and Hashem didn’t “make them” that way. Would you support thieves and murderers in their misguided ways/yetzer hara telling them “it’s their lifestyle”? Of course not. Why not? Probably because with their criminal activities they’re hurting others.
In your mind, a menuval is not hurting anyone so he might as well continue. (Actually, according to seforim he’s doing more physical damage than murderers, but we’ll not go into this.)
Will you support a person who can’t control his itching and natural urge of scratching his face until blood oozes from it, telling him to continue doing so because he was born to do so and it’s his lifestyle and he’s not hurting anyone by it? Or will you try helping him, take him to a doctor to give him something to relieve the urge?
Try bribing a menuval who, – as you claim was “born that way” – with $100,000 and you’ll see instant results, just like a doctor who needs to learn to work many hours overtime non-stop and manages to do so because he has the willpower for it; he wants to become a doctor, fame, money, etc.
The bottom line is that he wasn’t born with it but does not want to change his corrupt behavior, unlike erliche G-d fearing Jews who do want. People like you and others who support him and tell him “we understand you, you can’t overcome your desire”, suppresses his willpower. Instead, you should be telling him to stop being a rasha and stop your evil inclined behavior.
american_yerushalmi, roshei tevos
Arye, if the G-d fearing people you speak of struggle with these urges, that makes them homosexual. That is what being homosexual means.
Would you stop someone who was about to commit suicide because he was born in a way that people can’t accept? You haven’t been. You haven’t stopped any of them.
Listen Arye, I welcome you to contact me. I’m sure that I’d be able to give you a better understanding. The roshei tevos …. right.
G-d fearing people do not “struggle” with these urges. Every man is born with it but a G-d fearing person knows it’s assur and doesn’t dwell on it, just like he wouldn’t dwell on very tempting food that’s assur.
One who’s about to commit suicide is a sick unhappy person crying out for help and should be hospitalized. Nothing to do with being “born this way” or not. Legalizing immoral behavior, shady activities, commits transgression like being mechalel Shabbos will not get rid of his depression. You want to stop him? Give him $100,000 and you ‘ll see instant results. You can start with $10,000. It will surely boost his spirits, cut down his depression and desire to die.
G-d fearing people do not “struggle” with these urges. Every man is born with it but a G-d fearing person knows it’s assur and doesn’t dwell on it, just like he wouldn’t dwell on very tempting food that’s assur.
One who’s about to commit suicide is an unhappy person crying out for help and should be hospitalized. Nothing to do with being “born this way” or not. Legalizing immoral behavior, shady activities, commits transgression like being mechalel Shabbos will not get rid of his depression. You want to stop him? Give him $100,000 and you ‘ll see instant results. You can start with $10,000. It will surely boost his spirits, cut down his depression and desire to die.