20 Responses

1. This will force a confrontation with an unknown percentage of Hareidim who are anti-zionists who currently say are busy learning but in reality are opposed to the state and would be obligated to actively opposed the state. While it is harmless if they chat with the Iranians, this ceases to be harmless if they are a gun and put in the army. In this respect some Hareidim (those who sympathize with Neturei Karta), should be considered selective conscientious objectors, similar to Arabs, in that they have a religious and moral objection to serving in the Israeli army.

   That leave the issue of accomodation of religious practices. Drafting yeshiva students, even if limited to ones who favor the continuation of the Medinah, could serious undermine the efficiency of the army if the army continues to harass soldiers through following halachic opinions designed to conflict with traditional Jewish lifestyles, e.g., immodest female soldiers, not respecting davening times in arranging work schedules. While this could be addressed through segregated units (similar to the current Nahal Haredi, or the “Colored regiments” of the late 19th and early 20th centuries in the USA), it isn’t clear if that will prevent clashes between Hilonim and Haredim within the army. Given that many Hareidim, are in fact (unlike Neturei Karta) fanatic zionists who will see defending “settlers” against the IDF to be even more important than defending Tel Aviv against the Arabs, this may prove very unwise.

2. They know what will happen if they try drafting females, so its not worth trying. They think that they may be able to get Chareidi males so they are still trying that. At least that is what it sounds like from Boaz Nol.

3. What’s the chiddush? This has always been the position of the roshei yeshivos, etc. The reason bnei torah can defer their military service is that they’re performing a vital service by learning. Those who are not cut out for that should serve in the next best way, in the IDF.

4. “…system abusers should even be sent to jail for their actions are running the situation for all.”
   You mean “ruining the situation”

5. “TRULY LEARNING TORAH” – does this need a further definition?

6. I served in the army and there is always downtime when these kollel yungerliet could learn if they wanted to rather than going out with the guys to drink or party. Rav Gafne is correct that those bochurim who seek to evade the draft are a bunch of scam artists and abusers of the system who should be jailed since there is plenty of time for them to both learn and serve. Same for the girls although there should be some type of public service option for the girls who don’t want to join front line combat units. Also, the girls don’t have the same learning obligations as the bochurim so its not such a big sacrifice for them.

7. ruining the situation for all

8. No Jew should serve the Zoinists Army. It is a Sakono and an Issur. The reason that the Zionists started the Army and brought upon us the conflict with the Arabs is in order to distract us from what our real purpose as Jew to serve G-d almighty. The Army is what they want to use as the melting pot for their society. This is why they are the only country in the world that started mandatory service for women too.
   We have to find away to get of the trappings of the Zionists.

9. He is 100 % right. These chasidim just abuse the system, by pretending they are learning. In my eyes they should be stuck in prison and the key should be flushed down the toilet.

10. I don’t get you, antipole
    Why should believing Jews endanger they lives to fight a war they don’t believe in, for a government they would rather do without, against an enemy that wouldn’t be if said government would be מקיים the הלכה ?

11. To “Old Fashioned Jew” (No.6)…actually, you an old fashioned apikores and traitor to your country. If it were not for EY, there would be have been no safe haven for the yidden of the former soviet union, yemen, much of the arab world, etc. over the past 50 years. Those askanim rabbonim who argue that yidden would be better off taking their chances on being slaughtered by Arab armies rather than serve in the IDF, should be the first casualties of their own mindless words.

12. antipolejew: Wow! That takes some nerve of you to assume all the people who pretend they learn are chassidim.

13. There is an open gemara in makos daf 10. on the bottom that says bifarush: WHO ARE THE PEOPLE WHO HELP WIN WARS? THE PEOPLE SITTING AND LEARNING IN THE BEIS MEDRASH!

14. #9:
    If you think only chasidim try to evade the draft, think again. Draft dodgers can be found across the spectrum of Israeli society, and not just within the chareidi world. As a matter of fact, there is a high percentage of non-religious Jews in Eretz Yisroel who evade the draft as well. Aviv Gefen, who was one of Israel’s super rock-music stars, is an infamous draft dodger. And the percentage of draft-dodgers in North Tel Aviv is quite high, as well.

    Many articles make the crucial error of stating that there is an exemption for chareidim, which is simply not true. No chareidi male is exempt from the army because of his religious beliefs. And the IDF continually snags those who try to evade the draft. So I’m not sure what chiddush R’ Gafni is trying to bring here. The only chareidim who are exempt even if they’re working are those who join the work force when they are over a certain age and/or with a certain amount of children – criteria which apply to everyone.

    Drafting women – whether into the IDF or Sherut Leumi – is a non-starter and the government knows that. They tried it once and they are not going to go down that road again.

15. #8 has said the last word. R. Gafne may be too much part of the establishment to appreciate the danger. Every bochur and avreich now has to be on his toes to “learn sincerely.”

16. People who sre unfamiliar with the system in Israel should not comment. If a boy wants to marry a frum charedi girl, he MUST choose to learn, even if he is not suited. This is how charedi society in Israel has worked. Many if not most Charedi girls will not consider marrying a man who has gone to the army. These boys who are never in the BM but are on the yeshiva list as students are why the government is cracking down now-there are too many…..Either a better method for learning has to be developed so that bochrim will want to stay in yeshiva, or the system is going to have to change. It seems min HaShomayim…..

17. y dont u get honest. if it were simply a matter of whether or not to go to the army thats 1 issue but how many times has the army attacked and belittled torah values suchas kolmisha etc. so lets cut the baloney

18. For all those who say the ones who are learning win wars (which I completely agree)- don’t forget that Hashem told Gidon in Sefer Shoftim to specifically take the Talmidei Chachamim to fight. It is the zchus of the people who learn Torah that gives us military victories, but that doesn’t necessarily exempt them from fighting. In fact, as we see from Gidon, they may actually be the ideal soldiers.

19. #18, Hashem told Gidon in Sefer Shoftim to specifically take the Talmidei Chachamim to fight

    Really? Where is this written?

20. #16, you make the girls sound prejudiced and narrow minded. Not so. First, Hashem made all yids suitable for learning and commanded us to learn, we just have different madreigos. Second, anyone who serves in their army is bechezkas mechalel Shabbos and other things r”l. Third, the girls are raised in mesirus nefesh and would rather remain single r”l than accept a boy who tramples on their values.