To the dismay of most chareidim, the upcoming general elections will focus on compulsory military service for “all citizens” but the media spotlight and crux of the new legislation seeking to replace the Tal Law will be directed at the chareidi tzibur. The mainstream radio news magazine programs are already obsessing with the need to have the chareidi community “pull its weight at long last” and officials from all walks of political and public life are presenting their version of what the new revised Tal Law should look like.
Arab MKs have already signaled that they oppose any such move, and if a bill is passed into law, they will instruct Arab citizens to ignore it. Chareidi MKs are signaling that avreichim and talmidim will not be compelled to serve, but they are less bold than their Arab counterparts in their public response to a worrisome situation since much funding for Torah study is reliant on the Tal Law and the budgets that are based on this legal draft deferment.
The panic was caused by the February 2012 High Court of Justice ruling, which simply states that the current draft exemptions for the chareidi tzibur under the Tal Law will expire on August 1, 2012, at which time the chareidi tzibur will be drafted into military or other national service.
Defense Minister Ehud Barak’s bill calls for military or national service for all, permitting to have 400 avreichim nationwide to continue learning the others enlist. According to his plan, the IDF will make the decision as to who serves in the IDF and who is turned away, sent to national service. Barak feels that 400 avreichim is the magic number and the remainder of the community will close gemara and head to the nearest induction center.
Foreign Minister Avigdor Lieberman insists his party is unwilling to carry the government coalition any longer and his party’s responsibility to voters supersedes coalition concerns. Meretz is also planning to submit its own version of a Tal Law 2. In actuality, it appears to be at least six different bills, with Kadima and others waiting on line to compel chareidim to join the IDF in accordance to its formula.
MK (Yahadut HaTorah) Rav Moshe Gafne announces proudly that there will be no such reality, but in truth, he and others are working as backroom rumors hint at Shas cooperation with Likud and the prime minister on some type of bill that will satisfy Shas’ requirements, but will not necessarily be in line with the demands of gedolei yisrael shlita of the Ashkenazi community.
While these are only rumors, there is something in the works but this too will be delayed due to the petira of the prime minister’s father, Prof. Bentzion Netanyahu z”l.
All Tal alternative bills have been placed on hold until Mr. Netanyahu completes shiva.
In a related note, some 300 Bedouins are entering the IDF this week and this represents a small fraction of the thousands of eligible draft age male adults, but this community, like the chareidi tzibur, prefers to evade military service.
(YWN – Israel Desk, Jerusalem)
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18 Responses
I would like to remind the readers that we are now 150 years after the Civil War in the United States.
If we want to avoid a civil war in Eretz Yisroel, the leaders of the religious communities must come to grips with reality of Israeli demographics in 2012 and those demographics going forward..
Only Rav Shteinman appears to have some grip on this reality.
Charedim will have to serve and protect the country.
Now let’s all live in the real world- and not in the world of the Bais Medrash- and focus as to how to make this happen.
The US has the “eagle”. Russia has a “bear”. England has a “bulldog.” Australia has a “kangaroo”. Israel doesn’t have a national animal. Perhaps it should be the “Lemming”.
In all fairness to Lemmings, their reputation for mass suicide is undeserved. They bravely migrate over large bodies of water such as rivers and lakes and even fiords, some sometimes make mistakes such as when the body of water (e.g. the Atlantic Ocean) is too wide. They actually do quite well considering the limited CPUs they were created with.
Israelis, on the other hand, have already noticed that putting Hareidim into the army causes severe social tensions over halachic issues where minhag Yisrael conflicts with the minhagim of the secular Israelis, even when recruitment is limited to highly motivated, strongly zionist hareidim. Conscripting a large number of Hareidim, including many who are opposed to zionism and would be unwilling to compromise even on the smallest point of halacha (in accordance with the rule that one doesn’t compromise even on the way to tie a shoe in response to religious persecution), would lead to an army undermined from within by a significant number of unwilling and disloyal soldiers.
Thus I take back my intial comment. It would definitely be Loshon hora on the lemmings if Israel were to make it the national animal. Perhaps, they should consider the dodo?
Don’t vote. Don’t take money from the State. Certainly don’t go to their Army. It’s time to disassociate ourselves from this State. The days of this State are numbered in any case. May Hashem help it should end with no blood shed, and we should all do proper Tshuva.
#1- The United States resolved its civil war by crushing the rebels and forcing them to totally repudiate their ideology and way of life. Note that in today’s south, racism is in such disrepute that one finds predominantly white districts electing non-whites, and net migration of the descendants of slaves back into the south. While it took 150 years, the North finally won their war goals.
The zionists think this is a good model. Crush the Hareidim, and force them to give up their backwards ideology and become “modern.” This has been their goal from the beginning. Unless the hilonim give up their goal of converting the hareidim into hilonim, there will be no peace. The United States barely avoid a foreign war in the 1860s (the British government wanted to help the rebels, but public opinion and the Queen opposed slavery and the south wouldn’t give up slavery even to save themselves). Israel already has a foreign war on its hands. If they have a civil war now, guess what happens (cf: the war between the frummies and misyavanim – and notice how it ended). See my above posting, and reference to “dodos”.
#3 and #2 denail is not a place in Egypt. Would you feif on US, UK, or, even worse, Russia or Poland this way? You can not act like it is 1930 ans the state of Israel does not exist!
#1, I protest your words about the world of the Beis Medrash — it is a bizayon haTorah.
No, #5, it is reality.
The world of the Bais Medrash is a wonderful world.
But that world cannot protect us in conventional military ways.
Unfortunately, we have to start coming to grips with that reality.
Baruch Hashem, the Hardei demographics are exploding.
But the Haredi world cannot expect others to defend them and protect them.
They have to do their part.
How we structure those Haredi units within the framwework of the overall army and yes, the “shmutz” in the army, is the BIG question.
We will need real leadership form the Rabbonim.
Hopefully that will happen.
“…Now let’s all live in the real world- and not in the world of the Bais Medrash”–modern orthodox
Listen up. In the real world, you wouldn’t exist. With your kind of attitude, the jewish People would have assimilated into the general gentile cultures in which they lived long ago.
#5 Indeed the Zionist State exists, but it is a very dangerous swamp and we must disassociate ourselves from it before it is too late.
Deep thinker-
Currently there is more learning going on in Eretz Yisroel than at any time in Jewish history.
The world of the Bais Medrash is a wonderful world, a world that has sustained us throughout the ages.
However, it can no longer sustain the huge numbers- estimates of over 80,000 men of fighting age- in the real world needs to defend the state of Israel.
One has to be able to bridge both worlds.
When in Israel you like using modern conveniences- cellphones, car and airplane travel, maybe even a computer ?
Well one of the modern, real life realities, in Israel, is an army. Don’t expect others to protect you forever.
It won’t happen.
#10 – Then you should demand that the IDF open itself up to Hareidim in all ranks. That would mean not only strict observance of kashrut and Shabbos (which most Jewish Israelis observe to some extent), but also integrating halachic standards into all aspects of military life (requiring all IDF personnel on duty to observe the laws of yihud and negiah, structure military life in ways similar to the frum units and allow the secularists to do their own thing when they go home on leave – no more mandatory “kol isha” sessions). When they realize that failing to structure society along “frum” lines constitutes creating a hostile environment for Hareidim, the problem will be solved. However having a society structured on hiloni lines is the “goal” of zionism – if they wanted a frum society they could have gotten one along with open immigration and communal authonomy without starting a war (cf. De Haan negotiations in the 1920s).
So instead of supporting their demands that the Hareidim give up Torah to serve in the army as it is today, demand that the zionists give up Hilonios so they can recruit Jewish soldiers without being hypocrites.
And as I said above, it is suicidal to force hareidim into the hiloni army. You’ll end up with an ineffective army at best, and a mutinous one at worst.
“Deracheha Darcheii Noam-”
It will eventually happen, it has to happen..The country cannot be defended by the dwindling secular population forver.
Sure, the elite units in the airforce and intelligence will be shut out to the Charedim, and they will be relegated to infantry and artillery support.
Why not use this opportunity to show everyone a Torah true lifestyle?
Have separate units that can mesh with the greater army in a time of need. A Nahal Haredi in large numbers. We don’t have to mix with the pork eaters. We don’t have to see them.
We are not going to change their Chiloni ways. Time and demographics will change it.
Start now-
What’s up with YWN always posting this photo depicting Chareidim as lemmings. Which anti-charedi news-site did it come from?
In order to win this campaign it must be pointed out that this isn’t about giving differential status to chareidim, but recognizing Torah studies as a form of national service, which is something many secular Israelis can accept.
In addition international parallels (something the secular Israeli media thrives on) must be drawn to draft deferments for clergy and academia in other countries.
All you guys talking about facing reality are VERY VERY FAR from facing reality yourselves! Whatever your views on this matter may be, there is no question that the Gedolim will come out completely against any ideas of putting a draft on Chareidim that are learning. Therefore practically speaking it wont happen. Oh yea, its possible (although very very unlikely) that such a law will be past, but it wont work. The learning crowd wont serve. I don’t think the Chiloni crowd is foolish enough to go down that road, but if they did, you may end up with jails filled with Chareidi draft dodgers or worse yet, a civil war. Whatever the case the REALITY is that it wont happen. So with all your talking about reality, you’re ignoring the REAL picture which is that it wont happen!
The world is changing.
Demographics are changing.
You can bang your heads into the walls of the Bais Medrash and say I won’t serve..it will never happen.
OK- spin the clock 30 years from now and the Charedi population is 50% of the Jewish population of Israel.
Who will defend Israel’s borders ?
I don’t understand how smart people such as yourselves persist in the delusion that the Chilonis will continue to work- (pay taxes) and protect (army ) the Charedi world.
Crunch the numbers- it CAN’T happen.
It has to change.
#14, the Chilonim might be mad enough to go down that road!
I dont think that Chareidim wil be drafted and that the politics will calm down as they always have… however if this is not the case I can only envision what thousands of soldiers who follow the orders of the Gedolei Israel over their officers when said orders conflict will do to the IDF. It will change the IDF in ways this bills proponents will not like at all.
@Modern Orthodox But, it WILL NOT CHANGE! It wont happen. The Chareidim who are learning wont serve. Thinking that they will is sticking your head in the sand. How the state will survive? Don’t know, but the Torah wont change and the ideas of the Torah wont change!