(Click on image to ENLARGE) A miracle was witnessed in Bnei Brak this morning – when a large sinkhole opened up directly underneath the playground of a Bnei Brak kindergarten on Rechov Saadia Gaon. Approximately 8 children fell into the hole. Firefighters, MDA & Hatzolah Israel Volunteers rescued the children. Only two children were lightly injured. [Additional photos by clicking HERE]
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29 Responses
Hakadosh Baruch Hu anachnu ohavim Otcha
What causes a sinkhole?
#2 (torahis1): Get a life
Torahis1, even Teva is a miracle. “Shebachol Eis, Erev V’voker” we say in Modim, on Nissim.
Why does it bother you so much?
And this is certainly more than B’derech Hateva.
#2. interesting choice of name (torahis1) with your obvious doubt. Every breath you take is a miracle!
If this is not a miracle, then what is? Only if you see the Atlantic ocean split, will you be happy?
torahis1 – Thanks for showing us your true colors today.
I guess opening your eyes every morning does not constitute a nes.
According to your warped mind, you should take Modeh Ani out of the sidur.
Puleeeze.
Get a life.
DeliberatelyEsoteric…I second your comment..
JoJo
But life is a miracle in itself. and torahis1 has a problem with that.
Sinkholes are often caused by either underground mining or by water erosion. Perhaps the recent earthquakes loosened or shifted the rock or earth under this playground?
Thank G-d the kids are okay.
I wouldn’t call this a Nes, any more than your ability to breathe is a nes. It’s teva, it’s what Hashem put into the world. Nes implies that Hashem changed teva, which in this case he didnt. Sinkholes are basically just shoddy pipes leaking which cause the ground to erode, often rapidly, from certain areas. There were a few of these that happened around here and while some people were trapped, none were seriously injured. Saying it’s a miracle makes it sound like the atlantic splitting, not like the divinely managed nature taking its course.
Always bickering with Torahdude…didnt we learn when we were little about ignoring?!?
Well if I may say so, A miracle can be an Open big nes to as “little” as a tevadik nes.
ppl tend to kvetch abt all the horrible sad turnouts that klal yisrael have suffered that makes it to the media.
Thanks to YW we get to see all types of news. This one as well as others point out… it was a gezaira of some sort yet a nes baruch Hashem that the gezaira was softened and look what was bound to happen but didnt!!!
We need to be makir the tov- the sink hole happened- wake up and open your eyes klal yisrael- and yet Hashem has not taken any lives. It’s a nes but will we be zoiche to a nes next time?
Torahis1,
How do you understand our Tefilah, uttered three times daily, “V’Al Nisecha Shebachol Yom Imanu?”
Do you dare quesion the term “Niscecha” used by Chazal? Do you disagree with the text that the Anshei K’Nesses Hagedolah chose?
How about, “V’Al Niflaosecha Shebchal Eis Erev Vovoker?” Do you disagree with that as well?
there you have it chevrah…
the American Heritage Dictionary is the ‘poisek achroin’….
eliezer…to answer your question you have to consult the American Heritage Dictionary 🙂
Torahis1, with all due respect, why are you looking at the American Heritage Dictionary for the meaning of miracle, when we have much better sources to look at-Chazal?!!
#14. well put! Thank you. Everyone see that? Just because we are all anonymous, doesnt mean that we can be beheimas!
For all of you who have wrongly attacked “torahhis1” please take the following under consideration. It is a halacha p’sukah v’yeduah that “ein somchin al ha’neis.” Even if one is a Shmuel Ha’Navi going to be mekayeim the tzivuiy of the Borei Oilam, if he assumes that nothing will harm him when it is a matzav of “shciach hezeikah” he is a chotei.
Now, when those of you who drive every day, which probably most of you do, you are all being someich on the fact that your eyes are going to continue to function properly. That your nervous and muscular systems as well will function properly, etc. , etc., etc. It is indeed an amazing wonder the amount of seemingly infinite details of processes that have to go on in the body in order to carry out something as seemingly effortless as driving (or walking for that matter). If you define every natural wonder as a “neis” that would mean that it is assur to try and get out of bed because how can I be someich that the neis of standing up and keeping my balance is going to occur? Certainly driving would be absolutely assur because how can I be someich that my eyes, feet, hands, etc. will all continue to function in their “miraculous” way? Obviously, it is utterly inane to suggest that performing any of the run-of-the-mill, day-to-day acts that we do is assur.
Harei l’fanecha that there is a specific, halachik definition of the word “neis”. And Chazal make it abundantly clear that that definition is an occurence beyond the bounds of the normal course of nature.
Therefore, “torahhis1” is completely correct in his comment that the word “miracle” (which is generally assumed to be the closest, english translation of the word “neis”) is inappropriate in circumstances that do not require something beyond the laws of nature to occur in order for that thing to happen.
To make the point sharper: if it was a hatzalah b’derech neis then the subjects thereof are mechuyav to make the bracha of ha’goimel. If it was a hatzalah she’loh b’derech neis, then to make that bracha would be an issur (according to the Rambam d’oraysah) of lo sisah. The Mishna Brurah states very clearly that (taking this instance as an example) only if a person would normally die from such a fall and nevertheless miraculously lived, would he make the bracha.
So, again, you see that there are real, halachik ramifications of what is defined as a “neis” and what is not.
So for those who think that it is more “frum” sounding to call every near-tragedy a “neis” that nobody was killed/seriously injured, from the above you see that it is actually the opposite of being frum to do so because you will wind up being mesaleif the emes which could even lead to brachos levatalah, people taking risks that they shouldn’t, or not doing things that they should be doing, etc., etc.
For the one who wants to know what Chazal are reffering to when they say “nisecha sh’b’chol yom” please take a look at the Ramban in the end of parshas Bo CAREFULLY (i put that in caps b/c it is so often ridiculously misunderstood as i have pointed out at length in this post) and if you do such i believe you will have your answer.
Please, rabbosai, please avoid the urge that so many in our dor seem to have to be oiver on “al tehi tzadik harbei”. It is not frum to call everything nisim, it is not frum to be mevateil the extent of bechira mipnei Hashgacha, it is not frum to be mevateil hishtadlus mipnei bitachon, etc., etc.
To eliezer and everyone else,
You are completely missing the point. OF COURSE, everyday is a miracle and that’s what we constantly thank Hashem for. That doesn’t mean that we would print stories in the newspaper like “Miracle! Chaim Yankel got up in the morning!” or “Miracle! Chaim Yankel’s meal was digested properly!”. This is called Teva. When you see a “Miracle” story printed, you expect something that the person would say Birchas Hagomel for. We don’t say Birchas Hagomel for Teva even thought they too are miracles. That being said, if it was my kid in that hole, I probably would call it a miracle also.
Too clarify my last post,
Birchas Hagomel is not necessarily said ONLY on being saved by a miracle, but I think that in order for something to be called a miracle, it would most likely fall under the halacha of saying Birchas Hagomel. I hope that makes sense.
its a miracle torahis1 doesnt tell us his real name and location.
Well, what was He trying to tell us in the first place? To pay more attention to the subtle miracles?
Look at Modim carefully. There are three concepts there:
1. Nisecha: these are events which are a change in teva, such as keriyas yam suf.
2. Nifleosecha: this is an unusual event, or a “coincidental” sequence of events, which occur b’derech hatevah, but result in a yeshu’a, such as a sinkhole in BB where no one was hurt, or someone finding his or her bashert.
3. Tovosecha: these are “normal”, “everyday” occurrences bederech hatevah, such as you waking up in the morning, or taking your next breath.
All is from Hashem, and we must surely recognize His Goodness “bechol eis, erev vavoker”, but there are different definitions.
torahis1 what r u arguing for everyone knows ur right! the ppl that were bashing u at the beginning if u noticed arent spewing any of that stuff anymore questioning ur frumkite!! isnt that proof enough?
Thank you aunt laya, for the explaination of the event that occured.
If Teva is Nes and Nes is Teva, If we can daven for eva why can we daven for nes?
25, (post #21), thank you very much for your lengthy explanation!! It helped to show what Torahis1 was talking about. Shkoyach!!! That’s what I love about YW-people back each other up while writing shtiklach Torah!
There are many causes to sinkholes. In south Florida, the under water acquifers that carries drinking water from lake okachobee south to miami actually support the ground with hydrostatic pressure when the lake is at normal capacity. When there is a drought, the water pressure that normal holds up the ground is not there and the ground will collapse if it is over the acquifier. In the case In Israel it probably had more to do with a shoddy Israeli contractor, in which case it is clearly derech hateva.
There are Nissim that “look and feel” like Teva. Like being able to see, hear, feel, think, breath…they are Nissim, without a doubt, just as it is a Neis that the sun rises and sets…but because these Nissim are “hidden” by Hashem in what we call Teva, we are permitted to Daven for them, and we have a right to be Someich on them – because Hashem has designated them as Teva.
But they are still miracles.
On Channuka (the Dreidle) it says, “Neis Gadol Haya Shom.” Obviously, there are BIG miracles and smaller miracles. Why must everything be absolutely black and white – it’s either got to be as big and spectacular as Kriyas Yam Suf or it’s not a miracle at all – why?
There can be levels of miracles, big and small, and they can all be referred to as Nissim.