Yekke: If you’d just repeat your words with though, you’d realize the truth! How does “Ad delo yoda” become a chiuv, a mitzvah or a kiyum of its own? If I’m correct, “ad” means “until”. What does “until one does not know..” get to be a chiuv??? And would such a statement make sense? Shouldn’t a SHIUR be preceded with something to DO, some ACTION?
So for those who are not yet ad delo yoda, actually the Gemara DOES make sense. It IS preseeded with something, they’re hiding from you. Gemarah actually starts Amar Rava chayav inish lebesumay bPuria ad delo yoda… Whoops. Now it makes some sense. THe kium is besumay, and the shiur is ad (translated “until”) is the shiur.
(when you’re eating Matzho on Pesach, there’s no Kiyum of “Kezayis”. If I recall it has to be Matzoh, with a Shiur of kezayis. Eating a kezayis of apples is not “another option” to be mekayem Kezayis Matzoh. Same here. Going to sleep on Purim without “besumey” is not “another option” to do away with “besumay”. One has to do Besumay – with a Shiur (ad) Until…)
(I think that’s p’shat in Haleivi’s cryptic Rant)