Rabbi Avraham Yosef Shlita, chief rabbi of Holon and a son of Maran HaGaon HaRav Ovadia Yosef Shlita responded to accusations from Rabbi Yaakov Yosef Shlita, the eldest brother, regarding the wine cookies referred to in Eretz Yisrael as “Matza Ashira” cookies.
Rabbi Avraham Yosef, who is responsible for kashrus in the city, explains that this product, like any and all products under his rabbinate’s supervision maintain the appropriate standard and he personally visits the factories involved. He stated the wine cookies in question are indeed “mehadrin for Sephardim for Pesach”. In the case of these cookies manufactured by the Papouchado Company, he personally vouches for the kashrus integrity of the product.
Ironically, Rabbi Yaakov Yosef earlier in the week stated that not only are the cookies “chametz gamur”, they are not kosher year round.
Rav Avraham explained that while the cookies are called “Matzah Ashira”, the term used in Israel for egg matzah, they do not contain egg matzah but wine. “Since matzah is referred to as ‘lechem oni’, after wine is added it is referred to as ‘matzah ashira’” he explained. The product does contain matzah meal.
Regarding the spice cumin, which is also the subject of much controversy because it may contain small grains of wheat, Rabbi Avraham explains there was an issue some 8-10 years ago. Since that time he details, the machines and system used to manufacture the spice have been considerably improved and today, the computerized operation will detect the smallest grain of wheat and eject it so the spice is fine for Sephardim on Pesach providing it has a reliable hechsher.
The rav reiterated that a hashgacha on cleaning products which are not classified as food by the farthest stretch of the imagination is simply absurd, stating there is no need or justification for placing a hashgacha on items that are not edible in any way shape and form and these chumras have gotten out of hand.
The rav concludes that regarding cumin or any product, one should avoid purchasing items sold open be weight, as in a shuk setting, but one should seek out a factory packaged item with a reliable hashgacha, thereby eliminating concerns regarding kashrus for Pesach.
(YWN – Israel Desk, Jerusalem)
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5 Responses
This is a known fact that many of the children of Chacham Ovadia Yosef differ with each other regarding halacha, hashkafa and even minhagim.
They should all be blessed…
Is cumin kitniyos?
You are correct that this is partly a family feud between the Yosef brothers. But, while the principle of making egg matzah, or matzah ashirah is well known and accepted for sefardim and for elderly and sick ashkenazim, these cookies are a completely different story. They take actual flour, not matza meal, and add wine, sugar and oil (just like you might use for making matza ashira) and then they bake them into cookies. The principle they rely on is that the gemara says explicitly “Mei Peirot ain machmitzin” – fruit juices (which includes wine and oil and eggs) cannot cause flour to become chametz. Which would be fine except there is a conflicting gemara that says fruit juices cause flour to become chametz even faster. The contradiction is explained that in the second statement where the fruit juices cause it to become chametz even faster, there was also water mixed in. So because of that concern that some water might have been mixed in with the fruit juice, ashkenazim refrain from making Matza Ashira. So all that would apply to making matza with fruit juice, wine, or eggs added in. Here they are not making matza ashira, they are baking cookies with plain flour (kosher l’pesach, but not matza meal), and then adding in these extra ingredients and baking it like cookies. Rav Mordechai Eliyahu ztz”l came out strongly against these cookies and he considered them pure chametz. The hechsher for these cookies is based on a teshuva of R. Ovadia Yosef in Yabia Omer. I don’t doubt the reliability of R. Avraham Yosef in supervising his hechsher as chief Rabbi of Cholon. The statements by his elder brother R. Yaakov Yosef are mostly likely part of the ongoing family feud between R. Yaakov and the rest of the family.
In principle however, if you accept the validity of egg matzah for pesach, then it should be possible to make these kinds of cookies as well.
#2, no, cumin is not kitinyos.
#3, you contradict yourself. Assuming for the moment that these cookies are made with proper hashgocho and care that not a drop of water gets into the production, how exactly is this not the classic matzah ashira? How can you say “while the principle of making egg matzah, or matzah ashirah is well known and accepted for sefardim and for elderly and sick ashkenazim, these cookies are a completely different story”, and “Here they are not making matza ashira, they are baking cookies with plain flour”? What do you think matza ashira is?
I don’t see how there can be any question at all that such cookies are Pesachdik for Sefardim, and also for Ashkenazim who can’t eat normal matzah, provided that the hashgocho is good. The question is only whether that is the case. According to what R Yaacov claimed he saw on his visit to the factory, the cookies are not only possibly chometz, but also treif, because of the stam yeinom he alleges they contain. That’s relevant to us Ashkenazim too. I like these cookies, and usually eat them for quite a while after Pesach, until the stores run out; this year I’ll have to reconsider that, though I still don’t understand where they are getting cheap wine that isn’t mevushal.