12 Responses

1. Contrast this tough pricipled Torah position to the weak, temporizing and wimpy position of the poor Dati-Leumi Rabbis.

2. The Dati-Leumi (Religious Zionist) have always favored integration into the state, even if it meant compromising on halacha, in the hope that they could influence the state, and in the belief that zionism is actually the beginning of the times of Meshiach.

   The Eida Chareidis has always opposed the zionists, and while they stopped actively trying to stop them (after the zionists shot their representative – Hareidim may sometimes throw dirty diapers, but aren’t into guns), they have always opposed working with the state (often to the point of not accepting government money, and not participating in Israeli politics).

   If the zionists “crack down” on the anti-zionist hareidim they can expect civil disobedience, and a possible public relations disaster if a significant group of Jews (think Neterei Karta, which is a few hundred people at most, turning into a mass movement of a perhaps a few hundred thousand) starting acting non-Jews outside of Israel to protect them from religious persecution. It would also impact the “hareidi-style, pro-Israel” groups who work with the zionists in return for money.

3. deepthinker:

   Agreed! If the Eidah would also take the same principled stand against violence from their ranks, they would garner more respect as well as avoid Chilul Hashem.

4. It is a Torah position that no black hat fellow should have to serve in the Army? All of them, not just the serious learners? Really, now! Draft dodging cowards!

5. Another thing…let them at least have the moral courage of those Viet Nam era draft evaders who allowed themselves to be arrested, and who served jail terms for their position.

6. The Eidah is a radical organization. It at best tolearates and at worst encourages extreme kanoyus.

   We should look to our Gedolim of the Agudah and Degel Hatorah for true torah guidance on how to deal with the state and its institutions.

7. This is essentially the same position as the one taken by Rav Elyashiv shlita, R’ Shmuel Auerbach and R’ Aharon Leib Steinman.

   I suggest, subject to the consent and guidance of the Gedolim, that we go on the offensive and start giving bochurim and yungeleit intensive training in doing kiruv. Once the army and the government see that if they do succeed in getting bnei Torah into the army they’ll be faced with a large number of young Israelis doing teshuva, they’ll start rethinking things.

8. #6- The Eidah is actually the former “government” of the formerly autonomous Jewish community, with roots dating back to the period that the Ottomans ruled Eretz Yisrael. They tried to work for a way for Jews and Arabs to live in peace, but gave up after the zionists shot Jacob Israel De Haan who had been functioning as their “foreign minister” in dealing with the Arabs. After that the Arabs realized they would have to deal with the zionist demand for Jewish rule over the Arabs (rather the working with the Arabs), and that the time for diplomacy was over. Rather than trying the futile and unJewish technique of raising an army, the Eidah focused on communal survival, with, based on current numbers, great success in spite of a hostile environment.

   They are hardly a radical organization. Anachronistic maybe, but not a bunch of extremists.

9. Yonasan- The position of the eida is the torah true position, and is just as true with a plumber as with a yungermann.

10. You can be a Zionist and a halachic Jew. The two are not mutually exclusive.

11. The Eidah are from the few groups untarnished by the liberalism of today!

12. #10, a person who is so wrong on hashkafa can’t be OK on halacha. The proof is in the loopholes and heters that RZs use.