13 Responses

1. Yup and people still stand for our shuls making a mesheberach for this ‘medina’

2. The Israelis have painted themselves into a corner.

   Without the participation of the Hareidim in the army (and the economy), they will be demographically crippled. A country can’t prosper with a large percentage of the population marginalized (cf. the economy of the American south under Jim Crow, when they enabled Blacks to participate fully the south went from a backwater to relative prosperity in a generation).

   However, to integrate Hareidim in the army (and the economy), the zionists will have to give up their 150 year old dream of building a homeland where Jews can be free of the yoke of Torah and Mitsvos.

   Fortunately for the Israelis, the Arabs are just as inclined to paint themselves into corners (hmmm, I wonder if we’re related?).

3. I find it hard to understand why this amounts to the “uprooting of religion.”

   The Tal Law did not exist until 10 years ago. Its purpose was to encourage transition from the Kollel system to the broader society, for those who no longer wish to be in kollel but fear being drafted if they leave.

   Is Rav Shmuel saying that the situation should go back to the way it was until ten years ago, when those who wished to leave kollel were trapped there?

   I also don’t understand how a government’s wanting to encourage people to get off of welfare and to share the burden of national security amounts ot their desire to “uproot religion.”

   Is he saying that religion cannot exist other than in kollel?

4. I cant wait to see all the people who think they know more then one of the gedolei hador.

5. It is not fair that some people do national service and others don’t.

6. “It is not fair that some people do national service and others don’t.”–proudjew – no. 5.

   Yes, proud, but ignorant of our Torah hashkafa.

   The Gedoei Yisroel have made it crystal clear–so clear in fact, that even that rasha Ben-Gurion understood it–
   that “I’m Hashem lo yishmor ir, shav shakad shomer.”–The real guardian of Israel is G-D. Without him, all the planes, missles, and tanks in the world will be useless.

   The true guardians of Israel are the yeshiva men who toil in Torah and the Yeshiva women who support them.

   Take that away, and all you’ve got left is a tiny, tiny sliver of land surrounded on all sides by hundreds-of-millions of teeming Arabs, eager to swallow them alive.

   The secular fools who dominate the Supreme Court and the other institutions of Israeli society are so hell-bent on rebelling against their tradition that they have become totally blind to these realities.

7. They make a meshubeyrach for all medinos- why not, the next ruler may be worse- isn’t that a gemarah- especially if u don’t hold of the medina

8. I really hope this will be a peaceful fight. But my gut tells me this will be an all out war. Hashem should help us.

9. deepthinker-let’s try to have a civil discussion,unless my comments are censored (again). Do you believe that one should not have an army? Do you believe that ,just by learning, one can protect the Jewish people? If you say yes, what happend under all tke kings of ancient israel? What happened under the Chasmonoim? What happened under Bar kochva (That rabbi Akiva himself called Moshiach)? All of these good jews carried arms, had armies and even had drafts (yup-look in the Shas and the Rambam).
   What is it that exempts any jew from serving in an army? Please give me one true source from the Torah, Shas, Rishonim and then we can argue about this issue logically.

10. rabiofberlin #9: Some of the exemptions from the draft were 10 newlywed 2) declaring yourself afraid, etc. Are you ready to accept these exemptions?

11. No. 9:
    Maybe under the circumstances you mention, the conscripts and recruits were not forced to mitigate their practice of religion one bit. On the contrary, that was precisely what they fought for. Unlike the circumstances in today’s IDF. And, when Bar Kochva began to go against Chazal, like killing his uncle, the Tanna Rabi Elazar HaModai, things turned against him. Something to think about.

12. To 10-absolutely- there can be exmptions ,as there is in every srmy in the world. What you don’t have is a blanket exemption for a whole class of people. BTW- in a ‘michemes mitzvah’- there are no exemptions (afilu chosson mechupsso..)
    and to galicianer- you don’t think that the soldiers- both frum and non frum- that fought in all the wars in eretz yisroel fought to preserve yiddishkeit??

13. 12: No. To keep their country. Not the same thing. And that was not galicianer’s point. He said that maybe those armies were frum-friendly. The IDF is a terrible place for a frum boy.